Hey all, Seems the Australian meta has differing interpretations of how smoke works. For a Smoke grenade to apply it's FtF "Special Dodge" does the smoke template need to block all trajectories of attack on the throwing model? Or does it only need to cover the model at some point/at the end of it's order? IE, active model moves 4" into the open. Enemy model declares ARO shoot. Active model throws a smoke grenade in the same direction it was moving, so that it's final position is under smoke but the smoke does not cover any of the original short move skill. I am of the opinion that the smoke needs to obscure the active model at all times in order to be valid. Others argue that so long as the smoke covers you "at some point" it is sufficient to FtF the whole ARO.
Nevermind - someone ended up linking an older query that confirmed smoke must block all angles of attack.
Well, i think the order in the Order is: 1.- Declare movement and where is the movement. 2.- Declare atack and where is the atack. 3.- You need block LOF from the 2. Atack . <br>Una ranita iba caminando...
Unless it's a template weapon, the point of attack isn't chosen until the Resolution step of the Order.
I dont think so... http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Order_Expenditure_Sequence Red Square. Edit: Sorry you right "N3 Frequently Asked Question Updated: 1.1 Q: When do you choose which point of the movement path the BS Attack (or any other similar Skill) is performed? A: In the Resolution step, when the players are about to measure distances. In case the order of declaration is important, the active player is the one who chooses who must declare it first. " <br>Una ranita iba caminando...
N3 Frequently Asked Question Q: When do you choose which point of the movement path the BS Attack (or any other similar Skill) is performed? A: In the Resolution step, when the players are about to measure distances. In case the order of declaration is important, the active player is the one who chooses who must declare it first.
You need to block LOF throughout the Move, not just at the final position. Why people where arguing otherwise I do not know. 3.- Declare Move, including entire path 4.- Declare ARO, BS Attack 5.- Declare BS Attack, Smoke Grenade. 7.- Determine where along the Move the BS Attack ARO 'hits': if you can gain unobscured LOF to any point then it's Normal rolls There's a subsidiary question that wasn't actually answered though: Can you force a FTF by declaring your BS Attack at a position where the Smoke would be blocked even if there is a valid unobscured position?
Consider the situation: A model starts out of cover, and moves in to cover. Then it throws smoke to cover the point where it's out of cover. When the Attacker chooses where along the movement path to shoot, you end up with two choices: 1. Face-to-face w/o cover 2. Normal roll with cover The Attacker getting to choose means the Attacker gets to choose. Situations like shooting a model when it leaves cover are "Obviously, I shoot you after you leave cover" not "I am required by the game mechanics to wait until you leave cover to shoot you."
I think we forget one thing : who declare where is attack happen first : the reactive or the active player ? Taking your example : Active player declare move with his highlander (starting out of cover, ending up in cover, like your example) Reactive declare BS attack ARO Active player declare BS attack "smoke grenade" Resolution step : players choose at which point of the highlander movement they shoot Depending on who choose first, the scenario you suggest is possible, or not
Templates in order of delcaration, then Active decides. This is because you place the Template when you delcare the BS Attack with a Template weapon, but you only determine what point you're shooting at with a non-template weapon during Resolution.
Thanks everyone for expanding the responses. Multiple Warband players I spoke with, or commented on FB, in Aus (thankfully not many in my Meta/group) appear to have been playing skewed smoke shenanigans. EDIT - updated language used for @daboarder 's benefit
You mean just me. A mistake that 1) hasnt come up in over a year playing CHA and 2) that I was roundly corrected on by the other players in my own and the wider meta such as @inane.imp and @Spleen. In other words I'll own my mistake, but its not one the wider meta has made
Per FB - you were neither the sole person to respond with an incorrect understanding of smoke in that thread, nor were you the antecedent of the query being raised, nor were you involved in any of the other discussions I had with players via FB messenger - some of whom also had an incorrect understanding of the rule.
Ok. Does blast focus of smoke granade need to be between me and oposing shooter? Can I put blast focus of Smoke granade behind me but in a way that my model is covered by the template of smoke? Is this valid for FtF and getting effect of smoke-dodge?
So long as all possible LOF is blocked (you can achieve this by simply touching the template, the focus doesn't need to be between you and the shooter) it's a FTF. If some of the LOF is blocked but not all then the Attacker can choose whether to FTF the Smoke or not. If none of the LOF is blocked then they're both normal rolls.
