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Smoke Dodge inside a Zero Visibility Zone

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Bard, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. Bard

    Bard New Member

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    So, I'm a bit confused about the Special Dodge action with smoke grenades.
    A lot confused.
    Like grappling in D&D 3rd edition confused.

    Mostly my doubt is: Is it a type of dodge or a BS attack?
    And as a consequence....
    1) Is it a PH roll or a PH+3 (the range modifier of the grenade for <8")?
    2) Can I use it in the active turn?
    2.b) Can I use it in the active turn while inside a Zero visibility zone?
    3) Can I use it inside a smoke grenade as an ARO if someone with MSV shoots at me? (supposing no MSV or eclipse)
    3.b) If I can, do I get any malus?

    I'm sure there's more but I'll start with these doubts :D
     
  2. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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  3. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    Ignore all the Dodge stuff. You're throwing a grenade, it's a BS attack that uses your PH stat.

    The effects of smoke ammo are what make this a special case, but you still have to use your BS attack to fire that ammo first!
     
  4. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Special Dodge is the label of the Smoke and Eclipse ammunitions.
    So, to benefit from it, you have to make a BS attack with weapons using it and blocking LoF in order to have a FtF against any shot coming at you. So:
    1) Depends on the place where you throw/shoot your grenade, just like any BS attack.
    2) Yes, it is a BS attack.
    2. b) No because, like any BS attack, you need LoF to the target (place of the table here).
    3) Only Eclipse against MSV2+ since they can see through Zero vis zones provided by smoke ammo. Against MSV1, Smoke works.
    3. b) You only gains malus because of suppressive fire, visibility zone, range band and surprise shot or any other thing that imposes you a negative MOD.
     
  5. Bard

    Bard New Member

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    Ok, it's a bit better now... thanks.
    Just two things to be extra sure.

    1. If I am in a ZVZ and I can't see anything, if I just drop the grenade, I need to use a full order and Speculative Fire, as I cannot draw LoF to my own feet. Is this correct?

    2. If I am in a smoke grenade and I don't have MSV and an enemy with MSV2 shoots at me, I can declare Special Dodge and throw an Eclipse Grenade. What is my throw? PH+3 (grenade range bonus)?
    2b. In the same situation and the MSV2 enemy model makes a surprise shot? PH-3?
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    1. Yes. Counter intuitive, but necessary to make the rules streamlined for the general case.
    2. Yes, I think so, if you are attacked through ZVZ, you can shoot back as an ARO (or Short Skill) and the grenade's targetless trait allows you to stick the grenade on the ground. PH+range-zvzMOD so probably PH-3 total.
    Unless you are using an Eclipse Grenade it won't be a Face to Face though.
    2b. Surprise Shot, in absence of Sixth Sense or MSV3, is a further -3. Intruders are nasty. But only if your grenade is an Eclipse Grenade, Surprise Attack only applies a MOD to Face to Face rolls - you ARE playing Aleph I hope.
     
  7. Bard

    Bard New Member

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    The questions were related to a Corregidor game (Senor Massacre fireteam) vs PanO, but I do play Aleph :D