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Silhouette or Base on Game Table

Discussion in 'Rules' started by daszul, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    What happens if a trooper with climbing plus walks on a wall near the edge of the board?
    What happens if the silhouette leaves the board while the base is still in it?
    Is it legal or not?
     
    #1 daszul, Feb 11, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Undefined behaviour. Part of the model is literally outside the game.
     
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  3. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Are you allowed to voluntarily leave the game area, even partially? Think about a building put near a board edge that is closer to the edge than the diameter of a base. Can you move past that? No, right? Well, I don't see this as any different.

    Sorry if this sounds a bit snarky. It isn't meant to be. These are just the questions and (hopefully right) answers that came to my head while mulling this over.
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    On the one hand, a lot of games have rules that define that you're never allowed to have models leave the game table, on the other hand... why do you even need those rules when you don't need rules that say "at no point during the game are you allowed to intentionally flip the gaming table"? You have a gaming table on which the rules apply, everything not on it is outside of the game and as such not governed by the game.

    In either case, as the rules for Retreat! hint at, those are the only rules that govern moving units off the board as far as I can remember
     
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  5. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Just spit-balling here.
    Wouldn't it work just like walking through a doorway too low? I.e. impossible as you can't go prone
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  6. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think there’s a rule against it.

    It’s simpler to say that no part of a model’s silhouette can leave the game table, but I don’t think that’s a rule as written.

    Seems like you’d have to wing it on a case by case basis. But I think it is cleaner and less open to abusive shenanigans if no part of a silhouette can leave the game table.
     
  7. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    I think the last time it came up, the other player and I just pointed to those sides of the buildings and said, “No walkies.”

    I’m just going to be spiteful and suggest that anyone who tries to move a model’s volume outside of the table’s boundaries be forced to endure a 5th edition 40k argument over whether its permitted to pivot a vehicle while it’s standing next to the table edge. You will learn suffering. :smiling_imp:

    Because the alternative is drawing line of sight to and from points in a trooper’s volume that are outside of the playing area.
     
  8. fartsocks

    fartsocks Active Member

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    I think if you poke off the edge of the table, it should pop out on the opposite side of the table, Pacman style, giving your opponent an ARO
     
  9. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure this is not RAW but an house rule. RAW only include the notion of narrow/wide/cargo gate.
     
  10. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    Access Widths are only in use if you're using the optional scenery rules, most metas that I've come across just go by the physical size of the doorway if it's not an objective room.

    EDIT - and letting troopers move through gaps that are shorter than their Silhouette leads to some really stupid stuff, especially if you have buildings on supports...
     
  11. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    So you confirm this is house rule ?
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Considering most doors in use in my meta are not quite 25mm wide, access width is a must. The same goes for officially licensed terrain, most doors just aren't large enough to fit a silhouette through them.
     
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  13. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    You can call it a house rule if you want. For me it's direct extrapolation from the published rules for Sapper, Mechanical Transmutation, replacing models and markers, Boost etc. which require enough space for the whole Silhouette.
     
  14. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    yes, but direct extrapolations and infinity are oil and water :D

    For what it's worth though, it's times like these where a healthy dose of common sense helps make the game function.

    We always rule it as no part of the model's Silhouette can leave the game table.
     
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  15. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I pretty well insist on using access widths to describe doors. But that's because I love putting prone S5 through Narrow Gates that my opponent's haven't expected them to be able to path through.
     
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  16. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for the necro but this brings me to another question... RAW nothing says that the Move skill must fit the silhouette through the path, we only talk about the base to fit the surface.

    Therefore, would a S5/S6/S7 trooper be able to traverse a 1 inch alley if they go through the wall using Climbing+? Assuming the wall can accommodate the base of course.
     
  17. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    You cannot keep the base in contact with the ground for the whole movement if the base wont phisically fit.

    Having Climbing Plus, however, lets you reduce your S to 0 while climbing (by going Prone), so the Climbing Plus unit can go Prone, then make a move+move as long as the wall is as tall as its base's size...
     
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  18. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    You can’t be Prone on a vertical surface, even with Climbing Plus.
    • Troops can never be in the Prone state while they Climb or hold on to a vertical surface.
     
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  19. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Wel... If a trooper enters the Unconscious state, it falls Prone automatically unless it belongs to a Unit Type unable to go Prone (REM, TAG, Vehicle...) or has a piece of Equipment that prevents it from going Prone (a Motorcycle, for example).

    So I mixed the answer because of that. I agree, however, that there is nothing allowing you to voluntarilly enter prone state and then climb (in fact, it is forbidden to Climb or Jump while in the Prone State per the Prone rules entry).

    I find it hilarious, however, that RAW a Climbing Plus troop can go Prone if Unconscious (unless remotes, TAGs, etc..), but can't climb prone XD
     
  20. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Active Member

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    @ijw, does this also apply to a troop (who doesn't have climbing+) walking up a ladder?