Pretty much what the title says. I've been running Tohaa as a side project for a good few months now but suspect a lot of how I play them might be pretty janky in the broad scheme of things. For those who have time, I'd love to see what people that are just their stock-standard, go-to, all-comers comfort lists. Thanks in advance :)
Bris 1 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 2 KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades + 2 Surda SymbioBeasts / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28) SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CCW. (0 | 8) GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) KAMAEL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) SAKIEL Lieutenant Viral Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13) SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13) SUKEUL Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 36) GROUP 2 3 1 CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10) CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) CLIPSOS Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 26) DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army This is my go to list. I prefer elite list. I use this for my last few tournaments and have done okay with it. Sukeul is often replaced with a Nikoul but that depends on how I feel.
@Thaddius two clipsos (including the sniper) is really interesting. How much active use do you get from them with that order pool? How do you use the Preceptor with the two beasts, offensively or defensively or it depends?
Unfortunately I do not play very often and then also exclusively in the circle of friends. That is why I always follow the two Tohaa-rules of kindness: - no 4 Symbiomates - no Tohaa diplomat (she is more like using a glitch to me) So my current list often looks something like this: Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 KOSUIL Engineer Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24) SAKIEL Viral Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) KAMAEL Paramedic (Medikit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) SUKEUL Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 36) SAKIEL Viral Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) KAMAEL (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10) CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Neurocinetics, 360º Visor) HMG / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 25) RASAIL Lieutenant Viral Combi Rifle + 1 Chaksa Peripheral / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39) CHAKSA PERIPHERAL Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (- | 4) CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) GROUP 2 3 GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) KAMAEL Paramedic (Medikit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Played with this List very long, testing now new lists with a Gao-Tarsos BSG, but have no final list yet. Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 3 SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35) KAMAEL (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13) SAKIEL Lieutenant Viral Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) KAMAEL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13) SAKIEL Combi Rifle, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13) CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10) GROUP 2 5 CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) SUKEUL Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 36) GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10) B] 6 SWC | 300 Points[/B] Open in Infinity Army The Fireteam composition can vary in the first group
I almost never play the same list twice. I usually start with a couple units I am itching to play with and build around those units. During the last online event I made only limited insertion lists that had an Ectros Vulcan Shotgun and a Sakiel Light Rocket Launcher. From there I filled out the rest of the list with random stuff that I was in the mood to run that kept the list at 10 units and 300 points. Neema and some other form of Ectros ended up in almost all of the lists.
I used this list for the entire campaign, and took it to a few tournaments as well. I mainly played took it because I wanted to try out Neema Saatar who did not disappoint. While it was a little more tricky keeping her out of trouble from hackers, she is a good shooter, and is also no slouch in CC. With a WIP of 15 she is also a prime candidate for a Symbiobomb. Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 3 CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10) CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10) CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10) KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12) KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14) KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14) KOSUIL Engineer Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24) NEEMA Lieutenant (Advanced Command) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Viral Pistol, Shock CCW. (1.5 | 48) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13) CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) GROUP 2 4 2 DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KAMAEL Hacker (White Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioBombs / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) ARMAND (Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser / 2 Breaker Pistols, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (1.5 | 45) JÄGER Submachine Gun + E/Mitter / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0.5 | 18) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
I'm quite new to Tohaa. Trying it out and so far it has worked. Very resilient even though it doesn't play the specialist game very well :-) CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) RASAIL Viral Combi Rifle + 1 Chaksa Peripheral / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39) --CHAKSA PERIPHERAL Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (- | 4) NIKOUL Minelayer Viral Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30) SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35) NEEMA Lieutenant (Advanced Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust, Nanopulser / Viral Pistol, Shock CCW. (+1 | 46) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13) SUKEUL Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 36) GAO-RAEL Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 33) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) 7 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
That's a really interesting one @nehemiah. It looks like Neema and Armand get the symbiomates? How have you found the Cube Jaeger and the Krakots? How has the little Kaeltar triad with the hacker performed (more of a concession to scenario/campaign or genuinely useful)?
I like that a lot. I can see how you might have a lot of fireteam options in group one. How have you found the light rocket launcher? Does the fireteam in group two serve just as a defensive emplacement? If so, what do you usually do (if anything) if one of the two shooters in it goes down - just leave the other on overwatch as best they can, or fiddle groups and links around, or something else?
Yeah, Neema and Armand would have the 'mates, and Neema and the Kosuil would generally have the 'bombs. The Krakots are very useful with grenades because if the opponent dodges in fear of the Chain rifles, you can force a face to face with the grenades with a high Phys that is sometimes boosted to 16 by Bio Chemistry Lvl 2. The Cube Jaeger is great for bringing in on the last turn, and is often best suited not shooting anything and just being an annoying ARO piece, or grabbing a last minute objective. The Kamael was there to give me Fairy Dust, boosting Neema's BTS to 12, and giving a -3 to all hacking attempts against her.
Group 2 active turn really doesn't need to do much. If you're going first 1-2 orders on Chaksa to sensor is what I generally use it for. If I want to push a Clipsos I can though generally it's about getting up a sensoring something. TO sniper is definitely to catch out links and to leverage range domination when they try to slice the Gao Rael or Sukeul ML. Double beast are definitely the go to for me. They're much more of a sweeper unit that can deal with anything including TAGS. Forcing normal viral rolls or if you get a controller in there Imm2 can be brutal. If the opportunity presents itself you can try to alpha strike them but they're better off as bait if you're going first.
Disclaimer: I don't play Tohaa. Here's basically what I expect to see when playing against Tohaa. I guess the most "standard version" I could see being made would be a Gao-Rael triad over Neema and the Igao dropped for something else, but basically this. Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 3 NEEMA Lieutenant (Advanced Command) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Viral Pistol, Shock CCW. (1.5 | 48) SUKEUL (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13) SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13) SUKEUL Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 36) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13) GROUP 2 3 1 CLIPSOS Minelayer Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) IGAO Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 25) KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12) DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
@meikyoushisui an Iagao huh? The rest I can definitely see where you're coming from. When you say you expect it, do you mean it's a possibility you plan for when a normal camo marker appears?
By bait I mean that your opponent needs to deal with them. If they haven't then you can move up and deal damage next turn with more orders. You can move them to the midfield, put the SMG in suppresive and let them burn orders. Bonus if you've got a mate on them. If your opponent wants to throw skirmishers at them to avoid your Gao Rael/Sukeul go for it. The beasts/controller are pretty expendable and they've revealed + spent orders dealing with you. If not your opponent has moved out to try and engage them.
The Igao is low key one of the best units to go CC something with in the game. MA3 + Surprise Attack + iKohl makes him as good as Shinobu at CC, minus the monofilament. In this list, it was a natural match for the Clipso minelayer, that's the main reason. I think if I were playing Tohaa, I would do what I said and drop Neema, and then do whatever it took to get 15 orders (probably add a couple baggage Chaksas and swap the Igao for a Clipso specialist.) If I see a Tohaa list with 9 orders in group one and 30 points missing from the table, I'm going to deploy like I am about to get hit by the Gao-Tarsos.
A B3 8-24 Fire Template weapon is really strong. It's my secondary attack peace Usually to make an ARO and if you are hit you take your Symbiomate, willingly fail your guts roll and go prone. If you have a good opportunity in the active turn stay up, use your ML or SR to shoot down targets with B2/3. When I loose one member and I have another decimated triad and can spare 1-2 Orders I will build a new Link.
Ah, I might not be fully across things here. I thought you couldn't take a guts roll if you used a symbiomate, because you didn't make an ARM roll (so, had to risk the second barrage and hope it only did one wound and not two). But I think there might also have been a thread on this in the rules forum that said otherwise? Edit: went and checked. Is presently in the 'unsolved' basket. Still I reckon you're on to a good thing even if you have to risk staying out with a model with two wounds and duck it back once you take a hit.
