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Shooting the back of silhouettes and facing

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Hecaton, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Aight, this would probably be clearer with diagrams, but there's something that comes up a bit, especially when you have a 40mm+ base model tucked against the wall of a relatively large building, and relatively far away from the corners. Said model is facing the wall straight-on. As another trooper comes around the corner of a building, they're going to see the part of the tucked model's base that isn't in its front arc first - so they have LoF to the tucked model, but the tucked model does not have LoF to them. But! LoF in Infinity is reciprocal - with the main exception of not being in the other model's front arc. So technically the model that's poking around the building is in the front arc of the tucked model - it's just that all possible paths of LoF from the front arc of the tucked model to the active model are blocked. Because the active model is technically in the tucked model's front arc, and has LoF to the tucked model, does the tucked model have LoF to the active model? Or does the total cover somehow prevent this?
     
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    See the FAQ. It's makes this clear.

    upload_2018-2-27_19-37-56.png
     
  3. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    First, I assume the model being shot at is with his back to the wall, since if it's looking at the wall he would have LoF to both corners.

    Second, I think this situation is covered on the latest FAQ if I understood your question right (something I'm not sure of), but anyway I'd say this one situation goes straight to the laser and check if there really is a line valid enough. In my "personal gameplay rules", if I need to look three times at the situation to find a gap, I consider there is none (so there would be LoF between both models), but I'll see this afternoon if I can check it on the table (Tarik, you'll move from the painting box for a while XD).
     
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  4. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    This is one of those situations where rules as written is different than rules as played (atleast that i have ever seen played)

    But technically if you see the back of their base first, and shoot them they cannot respond as they have no lof per the faq mentioned earlier.
     
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  5. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    The FAQ seems clear on this. You can't draw LoF through Total Cover, if that's where your facing arc is at.
     
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  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Ok, I moved around the miniatures, and the prognosis is... nah.

    If the model is facing the wall, he will undoubtedly see the approaching enemy without any doubt regardless of the corner of the building.

    If the model has his back against the "wall", then I can see no way the attacking the model with the back to the building, unless they are so close the S5 model could declare Engage ^^U

    LoF Tarik.jpg
     
  7. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    Your picture actually demonstrates quite clearly that only a minuscule change in facing could alter that to be "shot in the back" instead.
     
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  8. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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    The FAQ clearly shows that you can get "shot in the back from the front" in this manner.

    What is even more infuriating is that with super jump you can jump high enough to see a models back, but the front half of their arc still cannot see the jumping model. With the same result, fwiw I think this is one of the worst faq answers in the game. When you face your models you probably can only safely cover one conrner now.
     
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  9. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Not if you put its face to the wall. This quirk only happens if you are facing away from the wall.
     
  10. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    It's going to depend on the length of wall you're trying to cover. There are definitely going to be spots where they can see your back arc before your front.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Holy crap. My Samaritans just got amazing.
     
  12. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    Jumping 6" straight up in the air still leaves you pretty open to random cross-table AROs, however.

    And I've seen the same situation come up in discussion just from having a model walking on a roof.
     
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  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Don't do this. Just don't.
     
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  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I mean, wouldn't the goal be to do this to people in enough games until CB gets the hint and changes it?
     
  15. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    Regrettably I'm not confident that is the avenue we want to take. Its burning the house down to kill a spider.
     
  16. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    It's not like CB comes to my game night and watches over us to catch bad interactions.
     
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  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yeah but if enough people get dunked on they'll complain.
     
  18. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    This has to be up there as one of the most non-sensical FAQs to date.

    But yes, it can be theoretically trivially easy to shoot dudes in the back arc. But sucks so much that in many circumstances it will also become something where LoF is checked repeatedly to confirm the action.
     
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  19. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    You are right, of course. I just drew it out to make sure. The angles are pretty tight, though. So, unless you're playing intent it looks to be damn hard.
     
  20. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    Yeah, I think it depends on the relative sizes of the models and the wall being covered.