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Shooting at unconscious model

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Ramas, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. Ramas

    Ramas Member

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    Hey guys, I have a basic question. Some people say that you can't shoot at unconscious models. This doesn't make sense to me. Can you help me out? Where I can find something to this topic in the rulebook?
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Whether a trooper is unconscious or not has no bearing on whether you can shoot at it. Keep in mind that Unconscious models fall prone, if able, however, so if a trooper is standing behind a wall and falls unconscious it frequently will not be able to be shot from the other side of the wall. Also it's good to be aware that skills like Mimetism, Total Immunity, etc stop working when the bearer is Unconscious, though Cover still applies.
     
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  3. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    There is nothing in the rulebook, because no such rule exists.
     
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  4. Ramas

    Ramas Member

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    But if an unconscious model is for example effected by a template weapon. What happens then? So we have only the rule for coup de grace. That makes absolutely no sense. If someone stands not far from the unconscious model why he can't shoot at the lying body. You can shoot at the model also with a Medikit. Consequently you must have the possibility to shoot in generel at an unconscious model.
     
  5. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    You can shoot an unconscious model. The unconscious model loses most of its defensive abilities, but otherwise acts as a normal prone model.

    You shoot as normal and the unconscious model makes an arm or bts save then lives or goes full dead.
     
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  6. Ramas

    Ramas Member

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    So we can derive this out of different rules as usual. But how can we explain this for new players which say:"There is no explicit rule. You can't do this." But from which rules we can derive the results. I am not convinced at this point.
     
  7. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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  8. Ramas

    Ramas Member

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    The rule says "target". We have no definition in the rules of target. The model can be the "target" of a medikit. Look at the rule. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Medikit This means an unconscious model can be a "target". Other argumentation is inkonsequent. If we have a rule gap here we have to fill it. There is no sign that CB doesn't want that you can't shoot at an unconscious model. A template can effect an unconscious model. The interest here is not the same as by using a medikit. The use of a medikit is no attack. But the use itself is similar to shooting at a target. And the medikit rule speaks of "target". And this is a similarity. Consequently you have to say that shooting at unconscious models is not impossible.
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Yes. Nobody here is arguing against this. You can shoot Unconscious enemy troopers.

    Anyone saying that you can’t will have to provide a rules argument saying why it wouldn’t be possible.
     
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  10. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    The requirements section of each skill usually defines to us what a valid target for that particular skill may be.
    Using your example of Medikit:
    - they have to be an unconscious friendly trooper

    With BS attack the only requirement is that we need LoF, and we know its an "Attack" meaning that we cannot declare it on friendly or neutral troopers. an enemy in the Unconscious state is neither of those things.
     
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  11. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Unconscious

    Try looking at the rules for Unconscious state. This is all that changes for an unconscious model:

    1. Goes auto prone
    2. Can't activate
    3. Can't generate orders
    4. No auto skills or auto equipment
    5. Count as a casualty

    Functionally, it is just a regular model that is degraded. As such anything that can normally effect the model can be used. Does that maybe answer what you were asking?
     
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  12. Ramas

    Ramas Member

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    Perfect! Thank you for your good answer :-)
     
  13. Car0nt3

    Car0nt3 Active Member

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    I just take the opportunity about this topic to highlight the point to shooting at an enemy model when there's the presence between the attacker and the target of an unconscious friendly trooper.
    In this case will the unconscious friendly trooper be affected for example by the friendly fire, and so automatic negates the bs attack to the friendly model?
     
  14. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    This only really applies to template weapons, but yes, if an attack affects a friendly trooper then the attack is cancelled. Unconscious does not affect this.
     
  15. Car0nt3

    Car0nt3 Active Member

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    Sorry, just to be sure because I'm not sure to have understood your reply.
    I want to shoot an enemy model with a chain rifle between my model and the enemy's is lying my unconscious friendly model. Can I shoot anyway and my unconscious model will be not affected by the TW?
     
  16. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    No, if the template touches your unconscious friendly then the entire attack is cancelled. Think of it as an advanced gun safety system that stops the weapon firing if it detects a friendly in the area of effect. .

    Remember though that unconscious models automatically go prone (if they can) so you can usually angle the chain rifle template so it doesn't hit the friendly (templates are 3D).
     
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  17. Car0nt3

    Car0nt3 Active Member

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    Very useful reply..thanks :)