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sheskin variants

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by dhellfox, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    don't know long its been up but i noticed there's now a HI choice.

    from what i can tell you're trading the portable cover nano screen to gain 2 armor, 3 bts, hackable and a lvl 4 proth for a min of 12 extra points.

    why would you chose one or the other?
     
  2. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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    well, she becomes more durable, that's ARM7/BTS9 in cover, and gains multi-terrain as well. Depends on your playstyle. Prior to that in reactive turn she was easily dealt with impact templates, and even with nanoscreen she was still susceptible to dying when losing FTF rolls. Whether it's worth the price increase and becoming hackable - it's hard to tell, as you still need to playtest her and figure out where she fits and what exactly you want from her.
     
  3. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Having played the HI option recently, I have to say it was underwhelming. Loss of nanoscreen means loss of attack vectors, and Sheskiin is an aggressive, in-your-face kind of model.

    Then again, I play her in vanilla. I think she has more room to work in her sectorial where an arm 4 model that can get up to 4 wounds is really needed (shasvastii don't exactly have high armor).

    I still think her losing the nanoscreen for 12 points and having no LT option in vanilla combined makes her somewhat of a sub-par choice, even with all the buffs.
     
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  4. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    IMO Sheskiin's selling point was her auto-cover therefore no need for frog jumping around cover made her extremely efficient attacker, not wasting her movement - going straight into business and not losing attack momentum to strike down enemies.

    HI Variant, sure, I think she *ate* the nanoscreen, but in that Variant she's no more auto-covered; so losing her best teeth. I'll say its a 'Meh'.
     
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  5. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    Sheskiin is a pure Rambo, by far one of the best active turn piece in the game. You're taking her for her offensive capabilities.

    She's going to win most FtF.

    You want her to be the most mobile she can be so that you can take as many shots as you can, nanoscreen is excellent for it.

    If you compare the profiles side to side, here are the positive things you get by taking each profiles...

    LI Version
    Impose an extra 3 Vis MOD while out of Cover

    HI Version
    Gets an extra 3 ARM while in Cover
    Protheion L4
    +1 Dice on successful non-Protheion attack (EXP over DA CCW)
    Multiterrain
    Breaker Pistol

    In my opinion taking the HI you get a lot of stuff that you don't care about much...
    3 extra ARM in Cover is nice.
    The extra level of Protheion is a bit superfluous, Sheskiin will win most CC FtF anyway and she is gunning most of the time.
    The EXP CCW is something that will not come up that often as it cannot even be used with Protheion.
    Multiterrain is nice
    Breaker Pistol is only relevant if you're ARO'ing from within 8" versus something that is not a template weapon.

    But the biggest problem with HI Sheskiin is...
    You lose 3 Vis MOD while out of Cover, so you're now cover-bound.
    You become hackable, which is a liability in both active and reactive turn as her weakest stat is her WIP.
    You cost 12 points more.
    And the biggest problem imo, you cost an extra SWC.

    Even if the HI profile was the exact same cost, it would not even be a direct upgrade. But the fact that it costs 12 points and 1 SWC more makes this profile a complete joke imo. Shasvastii is already so tight on point costs and is by far one of the hugriest SWC sectorial in the game.

    You're basically cutting out one of your SWC piece and losing points for a piece that will do the same exact role, but be worse at it due to restricted movement (cover-bound, needs to avoid hacking area). In exchange for having a slightly higher chance of surviving when you fail and some extremely situational stuff that don't matter.

    I'd much rather pay less for a trooper that has a better chance to succeed than a trooper that has less chance to fail their ARM when they fail to succeed.
     
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  6. Kwisatz Haderach

    Kwisatz Haderach Zelenograd Shasvastii
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    Let me get my 5 cents on this.

    Difference between Sheskiin old and new is like between old and new Achilles. And with all honesty i prefer the Achilles.
    That + armour helps a lot actually. You can tank a chainrifle or flamer if needed. Better chance to save those missile hits if you occasionaly loses the FtF.
    Prothion l4 is useful, when you chop up enemy midfielders, or surviving the berserking stuff.
    Multiterrain is just great.
    But i agree, that its hard to find points sometimes for her, but 12 pts tax is reasonable.
     
  7. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Overall, I agree with the assessment that Heavy Sheskiin is a side-grade at best and probably not worth the extra cost. However, the extra 3 ARM and BTS in cover is pretty huge, and multiterrain is quite useful in a faction full of dazers (though it puts a damper on her RF). It probably depends a ton on the mission... I wouldn't mind bringing her where someone needs to survive, for example.
     
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  8. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    It would have only needed one thing to make Heavy Sheskiin worth thinking about ... if she would have got a Spitfire instead of the Red Fury. This would have been enough to consider her. But without this I'll go with the opinion that she is a side grade ... at best.
     
  9. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I prefer the LI version. I like the red fury, but when you are are outside of 24 vs an HMG (TR bot) or sniper you can't do much. Being able to walk out from building 3 inches and still have cover bonuses is huge. I find its extremely rare to need a weapon over 32 inches, but I often need a little bit more than 24. Being able to cross that little bit of extra distance makes the LI version better in my opinion.
     
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  10. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    But the Red Fury is a better weapon. It has better range bands, and the trade of 1 damage for shock is a big deal in a game where most stuff has 1 wound anyways. Plus, FAT mitigates the damage a little.

    What she should have had for that 2 SWC was an HMG. A BS15 HMG in a sturdy platform that can switch into aggressive mode with heavy pistol and protheion would have been boss.
     
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  11. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    Surprisingly, I've actually found myself wishing that my weapon did not have shock way more often than I would've expected. Shock is relevant when facing Dogged / NWI, but versus everything that is simply 1W I would much rather not have shock to be able to accomplish classified more easily and feed on the corpses with Protheion.
     
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  12. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    That's what I meant. If you have Protheion you don't want Shock. You want to drop them unconscious. For Sheskiin the Spitfire is the better weapon. Only against units with NWI and no Shock/Bioimmunity the Red Fury is better. But if they are a problem, Sheskiin can leave them to another trooper. Funnily Corax Hasht has the Spitfire but no Protheion.

    So if Heavy Sheskiin would have a Spitfire, the 12 points are to consider. But right now I vote for ... no.

    And I would reject the HMG as well, because of the range bands. Sheskiin is so fast, the Spitfire ranges are optimal for her. And she wants to go in CC to use Protheion. Even if it is only on unconscious corpses.
     
  13. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Having played her a little, the major advantage of heavy sheshkiin is protheion level 4. This lets her slam into melee with your average enemy trooper and come out the other side with the maximum possible number of wounds. Especially if you're used to leveraging protheion for aggressive plays with her, the upgrade in protheion levels is significant.

    That said, for a full twelve points extra, it's a bit too rich for my blood (especially since I can use those extra points on warbands to help give her a gang up bonus in melee). If the costs of the two profiles were closer I'd consider it very carefully, but with the cost differential I'll run light infantry sheshkiin in my competitive lists.
     
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  14. Derpidicus

    Derpidicus Member

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    When I face Sheskiin I'd rather face her with a nanoscreen. I am generally prepared to do things to ignore the nanoscreen anyway and reduce her ARO to limit her to crit fishing.

    The boarding version is a bit different regarding what I have to send after her and she will like draw a greater number of orders from me to deal with her.
     
  15. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    RE: H.S. hackable characteristic

    I'm not sure how many people would even bother with an assault hacker against Shas (what with 1 non-Sheskiin HI choice and 1 TAG that has a marker state, and REMs that you are just as likely to not see as see), so that, at least, is a mitigating factor. Sure, a regular hacker can do something, but she has stealth, so...
     
  16. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
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    Being hackable is basically where I draw the line. Sheskiin is an amazingly powerful piece that you're paying points to add vulnerabilities to. Stealth is nice, so long as your opponent doesn't have any linked hackers, and it does nothing in the reactive turn to prevent her from getting hacked, not to mention the extra penalties if hit with e/m ammo.

    Yes, she gets a little bit better in melee, but she was already plenty good in melee.

    That said, gorgeous mini.
     
  17. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Neither variant is all that great at defending themselves in the reactive turn, so I didn't really consider it. However, you do bring up a good point about linked hackers. I had forgotten that SSL2 from the link turns off her stealth.
     
  18. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
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    Yeah, I love running Sixth Sense hackers in my other armies (Wardrivers and Maakrep hackers are SSL1 by default). They're generally not that common, but all it takes one, then if you reset, you're now getting hacked by all the enemy hackers (since Reset isn't protected by Stealth).
     
  19. Malig_this

    Malig_this New Member

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    I struggled with this quandary as well. Somewhere in the FB group I asked the same thing. Someone ran some important numbers, numbers my meager intellect can scarce recall, but it was very evident that the LI version is straight up better. More over, those 12 points are either an almost nox, or two taigha beasts. Either way, better way to spend those points for an already greedy sectorial.