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Shas update suggestions

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Magno, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Magno

    Magno Well-Known Member
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    The old Shas racial ability of an extra wound state to count towards VPs was too binary pre-N3. They dominated Kill Point scenarios. Now their racial ability is pointless.

    The joy and nuisance of Shas is that they are like an infestation. You need to burn, squash and irradiate every part of them or they just keep coming back.

    Shas Racial Rule Suggestions
    Option 1: Give all Shas models Protheion level 1. It doesn't break scenarios, as it requires orders and they aren't high PH and CC to start so they aren't guaranteed to automatically become multi-wounds.

    Option 2: Every 3 spawn embryos on the field act a single AI beacon.

    Option 3: A Shas sectorial has Strategos Level 0. Meaning, you can never hold one in reserve against them, but they can't give out Lt orders.

    Option 4: Shas spawn embryos are poisonous for CC, or have electric pulse and can't be Coup de Grace'd.

    Option 5: Immune to breaker, or E/M2 and all should have high or some BTS.
     
  2. gamma ray

    gamma ray Well-Known Member
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    Whilst maybe not game breaking, giving the entire sectorial Stealth would be an issue.
     
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  3. Keyrott

    Keyrott Nomad Handyman

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    How would it be justified for them to be immune to breaker or E/M2? Ariadna isn't, Tohaa isn't and neither is the freaking Avatar. That's the pinnacle of low tech, bio-tech and high tech.
     
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  4. Magno

    Magno Well-Known Member
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    Like Ezra’s before them would auto die once they failed a single arm roll because their innards were sensitive to any amount of radiation, Shas have adapted to withstand E/M damage on account that they want to be immune to exploding stars and such.
     
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  5. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Just change Shasvastii to be a form of Automedkit ability - it is pretty much already their signature. And if you keep the low Ph most models currently have, it would offset the benefit gained.
     
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  6. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Racial Shock Immunity? +3 Mod when using Medikits?
    Giving them all Regeneration might be more fluffy but probably too powerful - unless they made regeneration a levelled ability and gave Shas the first level, and stuff like Asawira level 2.
     
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  7. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Would be a pretty simple addition - symbiont armour already lets Tohaa ignore the -ve mod when using Parameds. (unless that is N2, not N3... and my brain is confusing them again)
     
  8. Obeisance

    Obeisance Well-Known Member

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    The biggest issue I've noticed as a newbie, is Spawn Embryo.

    Eitherer do away with it or make it pop optionally at the start of your first turn.

    I could see some king of PHY buff or Shock/Bioimmunity working for them fluffwise. They are a species outright dedicated to survival.
     
  9. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    ITT: more than one design issues encountered because of pointless skill nesting in this game.

    Isn't that Seed Embryo you are referring to? Its rework could go a long way, especially considering how unique it is.
    It only needs to be practical though.
     
  10. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I'd start with Shasvastii rule including Bioimmunity (or simply give them all this rule, skill nesting can be a pain in the ass). It's far from game breaking, but insulates them from shock, ties well with Spawn-Embryo mechanic, and makes sense fluff-wise.
     
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  11. Magnetkopf

    Magnetkopf New Member

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    I'm fairly new to infinity and started with shasvastii (december last year). What I'd like to see are some small changes. Here is my whishlist:
    • This one is to make seed soldiers more usefull:
    1. make the hatch a dodge so it is actually usefull to hatch in an aro (not to usefull with ph9 but better than now)
    2. let seeds be fireteam core (even if in marker state)
    3. more weapon options. maybe a sniper rifle and a spitfire
    • units with autometkit are considerably more costly than similar units in other fraction (malignos vs croc man) (shrouded vs clipsos). So fare I haven't had that much use out of a autometkit. But this one could also be lack off experience on my side.
    • Cadmus: considerably increase the PH value of the seed (and only of the seed) to make him reliable as a jump trooper. He can't enter from the side like other troopers and with ph11 it is way to unreliable for him to land anywhere useful.
    • Caliban: considerable price drop and or superior infiltration.
    • give us imetrons
    • Haiduk: optional msv2 (simply so we have a unit with msv2. A totally new unit would also be ok :-))
    • I want ambush camo on a trooper. Maybe the shrouded, but that might be to crazy, especally in combination with mine layer.
    that said, I'm quite happy with shasvastii so far.
     
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  12. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    From what I remember Seeds are going to be completely reworked, and a new light unit will take their place as basic infantry. Of course concepts can change a few times before CB will be finished with the sectorial.
     
  13. gamma ray

    gamma ray Well-Known Member
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    I remember a while back someone from CB (Maybe Bostria?) saying that the Umbra was an initial concept for a new look Shas unit, maybe seed.
     
  14. Sora9785

    Sora9785 Well-Known Member

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    Yup they wanted to resculp the shasvasti and created the umbra. When they looked at it they thought, no that are new ones the umbra and they get the onyx contact force
     
  15. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Yeah, you're both right.

    Personally I hope they'll update the looks, but keep the overall theme. From what I remember they've planned to keep the troops present in N3/HSN3 as they are, but if they'll start working on SEF only in the second half of 2018 this might change.

    Given CB's effort to streamline the rules I doubt we'll get something like racial rules suggested by Magno. And I'd say it's good. I don't want army rules not tied to specific models.

    That being said, it'd be fairly easy to picture Shas resilience and widespread presence using the tools at hand:
    • Bioimmunity, as I've said before. It helps to combat the increased availability of Shock ammo, and fits the sectorial thematically.
    • Automedikits and Regeneration, maybe even something like Regeneration Plus, and SEF-exclusive Doctor Plus. This highlights how hard is to keep a Shasvastii down.
    • Generally more focus on BTS than ARM, showing increased resilience of Shas bioengineering.
    • More options for Infiltration and Forward Deployment. Let us spread over our half and force opponent to combat infestation.
    • More Minelayers with different mine types: Viral Mines, E/Maulers, Fire and Adhesive Traps. This should help to confuse the opponent and make him chase false leads.
    • Ambush Camo. Works great together with Minelayers and Camo units.
    • Not a great emphasis on full fireteams, but options for Duo and Haris (Haris L2?). Multiple special fireteams, allowing troops from different units work together - Shas sound like an army that prefers flexibility and improvisation over rigid squad structure.
    • Sniper HI with some nasty tricks. Viral Sniper Rifle, Hyperdynamics, Regeneration, Mimetism or ODD, etc. I've had an idea for a nice HI for us once, but then it was pretty much introduced in form of Ayyar.
    • KHDs to go with the 'alien assasins' theme.
    Some unit specific wishes:

    • Seed-Soldiers - disruption and misdirection unit, with Forward Deployment L2, Ambush Camo or Limited Camo and various Minelayers.
    • Haiduks - Ambush Camo, Marksmanship, better BS.
    • Calibans - fire support counterpart to Gwailos. Heavier weapons, Forward Deployment L1 instead of Inferior Infiltrations (it makes them unreliable, especially given their price. People complain about cheap as dirt Daylami, Calibans are in an even worse spot). Limited Camo is fine.
     
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  16. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Clipsos is TO/Inf - why are you matching it to a shrouded? >_>
     
  17. Magnetkopf

    Magnetkopf New Member

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    Because they have very similar loadouts and point costs. However the shrouded has+1bs and an automedikit while the clipsos has TOCamo and +3BTS.

    I would trade that one bs and that automedkit for ToCamo any day. --> IMHO the Clipsos has for the same point cost a supirioer loadout.
    Maybe I'm evaluating the value of the Automedikit wrongly, but in my very short infinity experience the Automedikit was quite situational.
     
  18. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Haha - and Order Sergeant in MO has the superior loadout to the Clipsos.

    It just felt like you were trying to point out that we pay extra for the Auto-Med, but then picked a unit that wasn't the same in terms of abilities... In terms of judging the extra costs, it would be more akin to a Zero (again Bs11) or Chasseurs (same deal).
     
  19. C0MR4DE

    C0MR4DE Malfunctioning Unidron

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    *cough* holoprojector *cough*
     
  20. Herr Hörn

    Herr Hörn Well-Known Member

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    One new unit with Minelayer Ambush Camo Holoprojector Impersonator MSV2 and Bioimmunity.

    And some special rule to make sure the rules mentioned above don't conflict with each other.

    On a serious note, all Seeds should either get S2 or that trait that allow mines to pass as S2 while camouflaged. Playing "guess the unit" games with Seed-Soldiers and Calibans is an important aspect of SEF, instead of "Yeah these Camo markers are seeds so if you just wait until the next turn you won't have to discover them".
     
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