So with ITS11 tags get Tactical awareness, and one of the things I like about DBS is the Upgraded Scarface & Cordilia duo. I'm tempted to switch back to DBS after I decided switch to Ikari. What everyone feeling on this, is it worth going back to DBS now. The new ABH profile (SubM &AK) is also a nice addition. I originally left because of the need to bring hackable models, but the lack of (decent) hacking defense made it a weakness. Also the number of list options were a little limited, I preferred more diversity in my options. Spoiler: List Druze Bayram Security ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 SCARFACE & CORDELIA TURNER . (1.5 | 78) SCARFACE 2 Mk12, Heavy Rocket Launcher / AP CCW. (1.5 | 61) SCARFACE Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. () CORDELIA TURNER Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17) DRUZE Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) DRUZE (X Visor) Shock Marksman Rifle, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28) VALERYA GROMOZ Hacker (Hacking Device UPGRADE: Expel) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) CLIPPER DRONBOT Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) SAITO TOGAN (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 40) HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) GROUP 2 2 1 BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 5 SWC | 297 Points Open in Infinity Army
While I am a little bit unclear about the links you had in mind, I think that TA on Scarface is interesting, but the new price is difficult for Druze. We have so much expensive stuff and now one tool is taking four additional points from other important upgrades in our lists...That needs to be tested in the next weeks. But besides that, one more order for him grants one more shooting action and hopefully one more dead enemy, what is great! Additionally, Cordelia will be more mobile, which closes my problem of not enough fas button-pushers.
I don't wish to seem negative, but the price increase is a legit irritation. That's a wacor or servant bot right there
I didn't realize there was a price increase. That is a bit of a bummer. In IT'S10 I liked the free fatality L1, now it looks they just bumped the costs up for the 2 abilities, it's still cost effective, but it's not free. I've found that tags in general were a bit over priced. I found the large profiles to be a hinderence, and compared to an alphe 70 point guy I would prefer the alphe model. Usually you have more tactical paths. That was one ofmthenreasons I liked scarface and Cordelia, they are very cheap for what they do. In general I've been disappointed with CBS as a whole, it always seems to be missing something, but I do like a couple aspects which is why I wanted to revisit them.
Real bummer on the cost - It was already the one thing keeping me from running the duo more frequently. I'll keep running them and I'll make use of Tac Aware because that seems awesome - But DBS did not need Scarface to cost more at all. Just doesn't really make sense to punish a faction that is already considered weak by many players.
I couldn't agree with you more Old Gregg! I find it a bit baffling to be honest! It's the same case with the Anaconda! I mean is it really going to tip the power balance giving Scarface a small buff? (Not to mention the DBS scarface is slightly more expensive to begin with, not a complaint, I love the Druze versions extras) I know it sounds pretty to quibble over a few points, but so many times my list building is chopping and changing things to balance out those last few points, so it DOES make a difference. And yet the likes of Cutters or Szalamadras get it for free? Trying to not be the salty forum guy here. But still! :-p
At least Druze can have him in a link and ignore the Frenzy. I used him with Ikari the other day and hated him.
The Link seems great, allows him to keep cover I guess! Although it does prevent him going into suppression, which I think is nigh essential for every TAG! It is kind of cool that Joe gets to keep fatality even after he dismounts!
Yup - Not ever going to argue that DBS benefits a lot form the Scarface/Cordelia duo. Its great fun, cuts back on the Frenzy tax, and lets you drag a decent specialist (with mimetism) up the board. That is all great. It was great before tac-aware. I'm just trying to say I don't understand yet another points hike for something that all together isn't game breaking or over powered in any way. Scarface is essentially a decent HI piece to begin with. The point change absolutely does make a difference. To me, it would make perfect sense if this happened because scarface could join a haris or core, (which would be sweet), but this isn't the case ...
You can, it just breaks the link. But by that point hopefully Cordelia is near him to fix him up if needed.
I couldn't agree more Old Gregg! A point increase for Scarface (and the Anaconda) is hard to swallow, and hopefully that change will get rolled back with N4! And Space Ranger that's true! I have to say of the two profiles scarface has, I prefer the DBS one!
Huh, so, not to flog a dead horse here, but my friend pointed out last night that techically, the Anaconda, scarface, geckos and iguana got nerfed in the new update. (I'm probably not articulate enough to explain his reasoning here so bear with me) So if all TAG profiles now have Tac aware and fatality as standard, that's the baseline, as they ALL have it. So with the cheaper TAGs paying for it, all they arguably got was comparably worse to the others. Interesting! :-)
Yeah it's about the % increase in points when compared to the cost of the TAG, where there were points increases it was always 4pts and a more expensive TAG can do a lot more with the extra order than a cheaper option like scarface could. Scarface at least has one of the more useful TAG duo options in dragging along Cordelia or, even better, Valerya (that WIP 14 for button pushing, she can defend from other hackers and has the pitcher to set up repeaters so your druze killer hacker can pop the heads of people trying to hijack Joe's ride.. it's just sweet) I think the only one better is Dahshat's Maggie and Valerya duo (try getting to this objective when I have the biggest silhouette in the game blocking your firelane and my squishy button pushing hacker friend from harm) or maybe StarCo with the Anaconda and Mobile Brigada duo (just because they murder... a lot [ah StarCo my guilty pleasure, how fun it is having an Irmandinho with a helper bot following that particular duo]).
Valerya is a great option, but I’ve found that seasoned players will take the opportunity to zap her with magic as soon as you extend with Scarface. In turn, this makes him more vulnerable, so I’ve actually found myself leaning back towards Cordelia in a lot of situations. I don’t think the points hike is justified because of either duo at all.
@b1ackheart : The main benefit of Scarface in is it's a cheap tag. I picked mine up when they made half the scenarios get benefits for having a tag. The DBS upgraded profiles removed his biggest drawback. I agree with the fact Duoing a button pusher is a great benifit, but adding 13% (to him, not duo) to the cost is a little much for such a large target. I also agree with @oldGregg Valeria is a little easy to take out, especially since DBS has a fairly weak hacking. I picked up DBS when it was the first 'new' sectoral because i wanted a remote based list, but realized the remote\repeater list is a giant weakness when your hackers are fairly fragile. Considering Nomads are a common opponent I had to pretty much shelve the idea of playing it.
I agree valerya is squishy and I do concentrate heavily on murdering hackers early game of I am going to take Scarface. If they are in an awkward place for murder dropping an e/m grenade on the hacker and disabling their hacking device is a good second option Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
I loved using Cordeilla in that Scarface Duo. The pocket engineer in tow is a huge benefit to Scarface and makes him much more durable than he has a right to be for his cost. As for the point increase, I don't understand why the cost went up for low cost TAGs; but if there were two profiles for Scarface (one with TA and one without) I'd pay the extra cost every time.
I'm going to agree to disagree here. EDIT: I realize now I misread the quoted post, so I'm not really disagreeing at all... sorry. :) I feel that Scarface's main benefit is what you get for his cost, he's a hyper-efficient unit for what he does on the table because he has 3 Structure and is fast AF. Those are qualities of being a TAG, even if he plays more like the fastest (and fattest) HI ever. He's an aggressive active turn unit that can often be a major defensive roadblock and order sink for your opponent. The Duo means if he ends up being disposable, you probably managed to score with his orders anyways. FWIW, I think Scarface is may be the best deal you can pay for a TAG in the game.
Anecdotal tangent: I wiped a panO player off the table turn one with Scarface and 1 shot from a Druze Multi-Sniper at the top of 1. (Terrible deployment). He’s so fast it’s scary!
