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Sat-Lock is Amazing

Discussion in 'Druze Bayram Security' started by Reece, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    So, I went 3-0 in a local tourney this weekend. I ended up getting some GREAT use out of Sat-Lock and guided missiles.

    The first time, the mission was Decapitation. I went first. His Data Tracker was Brando Castro. He parked him inside a building VERY close to my HVT. On the other side off the building was Kusinagi and some Reverends. On my first turn, I probably spent too many orders trying to get Sat-Lock to stick on BC. My linked team was pretty far out, so blew like four orders and got nothing. Then got some guys in position and started setting up for his first turn. I happened to be sitting on two orders left. One was Irregular. So I tried once more and it stuck. Then my final order was the Shock+DA+AP missile. That took him out.

    His turn, Kusinagi tries to go finish it. I got SUPER lucky with a flash pulse on her from across the board, then isolated the hacker, then my HVT successfully dodged (or made armor saves) for three orders against the Rev Healer. Again, great luck on my side.

    But Kusinagi and her team were all bunched up in the same building with my Pathfinder sitting right outside. So this time, I start by moving the Pathfinder in to my second group. It's got three regular and two irregular orders already, so I figure if I blow four orders again, it's not orders from my link.

    Assisted Fire first. Sat-Lock sticks right away on Kusinagi. Her and the Hacker go away. Sat-Lock sticks right away on the last one. She's gone.

    My third turn, I move up to the LT hiding on the second floor or so of a building, prone. Sat-Lock and Guided fire take him out too.

    I ended up winning 10-0. It probably should have been 10-2 or whatever he gets for killing my HVT.

    But Sat-Lock CAN be really good. The problem is the investment and "dicey-ness" of it. A single roll FTF, my 13 vs your 12-14 Reset generally. The other issue is the investment. It's 41pts to do it (assuming you've already got the Clipper). And you either have to spend orders getting the Pathfinder there OR getting a Fugazi (another potential investment) up to drop a Sniffer.

    On the plus side, it's SUPER SAFE.

    But look at Gromoz, she can use Spotlight needing an 11 to get it to stick. You'll likely have Repeaters already with the Bots, Pitchers, and potential Hunzakut.

    Also NOT something I'd try in Limited Insertion. Too much chance to waste orders.

    Anyway, the stars aligned that game and I was able to get great use out of Sat-Lock. It was lots of fun. Maybe one day it'll work out for me again.
     
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  2. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    I had to fiddle with the dice calc to get it to get the right numbers but....

    Active Player

    33.50% Valerya Gromoz, Mercenary Hacker Targets Bran do Castro, Triple Zero for 1 Turn

    Failures

    18.50% Neither player succeeds


    Reactive Player

    48.00% Bran do Castro, Triple Zero Resets vs. Valerya Gromoz, Mercenary Hacker


    Versus

    Active Player

    42.25% Pathfinder Targets Bran do Castro, Triple Zero for 1 Turn

    Failures

    15.50% Neither player succeeds


    Reactive Player

    42.25% Bran do Castro, Triple Zero Resets vs. Pathfinder

    If your list is using an EVO for its other capabilities then Sat Lock is a good way to target something, especially if you can use a secondary order pool like you suggest. Gromoz will rarely be in a secondary order pool though, so the opportunity cost is much higher for her to Spotlight.

    With DBS, building a list for sticking Targeted and expecting it to be successful in an efficient manner is an expensive proposition with only a ~10% increase in effectiveness, but I can still see building a second order group primarily for trying to get Targeted to stick as a potential strategy.

    I think the Hunzakuts are the best option most of the time using surprise FO when they have the opportunity.

    Using Sat-Lock with out the EVO is really dicey....


    Active Player

    19.00% Pathfinder Targets Bran do Castro, Triple Zero for 1 Turn

    Failures

    24.50% Neither player succeeds


    Reactive Player

    56.50% Bran do Castro, Triple Zero Resets vs. Valerya Gromoz, Mercenary Hacker
     
    #2 jfunkd, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
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  3. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    If you have EVO, I'd consider Satlock as an alternative to Sensor-Sweeping for a single target Camo model.

    You'll either succeed and Sat Lock, or tempt your opponent to reveal with a Reset. Either way, you gain something, and potentially gain more than a regular Sensor sweep by conferring Targeted. That's pretty cool.

    Still on the fence about making it the centerpiece of a list, but if you have a Pathfinder, an EVO, and something that's good at Speculative Fire, I think it's a no-brainer to at least try.
     
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The problem with Sat-Lock is if the target is a mine, it doesn't do anything besides discovering it.
     
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  5. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    I have been told that I need to disclose which combat group a specific camo marker is in.

    Since mines are not in a combat group they question means you should never be in the position of finding out the marker is a mine after declaring your order.
     
  6. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    That seems very much not correct to me. But that's for the rules forum! :P
     
  7. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    http://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/is-minelayer-useless.607/

    This is where I got my information.

    I mean I don’t like that ruling because minelayer is one of my favorite abilities that I suddenly am gaining access to by starting Nomads after a lengthy QK streak.
     
  8. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    Yeah, I saw that a while back. It's totally still in the air.

    But have you tried Sat-Lock yet?

    I think an FO Hunzakut is still our best option if we can negate cover.
     
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  9. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Sat-Lock, if you have EVO on the board, is generally a better option than Sensor if you are going after a single camo marker, because it has lower odds and can be defended against but that defence auto-reveals.

    Note that in those percentages above, in every case is Bran Do Castro Triple Zero revealed from Camo. You declare Sensor, they do nothing and are revealed. You declare Sat-Lock... ah, now we have a conundrum, do we declare a Reset to defend from the targeted state? Or do we do nothing and hope that WIP 13 roll fails? Welllll statistically the latter is more likely to result in a targeted and revealed camo trooper than not, so Reset is the obvious choice, but Reset could have the same outcome, and absolutely will result in being revealed. And they have more orders too! Ahhh! So if I leave it and let them burn orders on the Sat-Lock... but then they will probably just pass and get exactly what they want... but then if I Reset I also give them what they want...

    Sat-Lock puts psychological pressure on your opponent, and also is very easily a win-win situation for you. The thing is that 1/3 times, you'll fail that Sat-Lock roll unopposed... but is your opponent going to make their ARO choice based on something you probably won't do?!? I always go with Sat-Lock if it's available, and it always reveals because they ARO, or gives me both. And, notably, the reveal is all I want a lot of the time. The targeted is then useful for slapping MML2 on the same REM and then combined with the targeted state just taking out whatever troop I've discovered no problem, clean sweep.
     
  10. Superfluid

    Superfluid Welcome to Svalarheima

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    What the hell? How is this even a thing? Thats rubbish. I suspect we'll house rule it in our group so that camo mines belong to the same combat group as the owner and just hope that CB comes down with a ruling one way or the other soon.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I think the better option would just be to have it not be known which order group a camo token was part of until its revealed or an order is spent on it.
     
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  12. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    It's my understanding that this is the correct way. The combat group information remains private until revealed.

    But again, I'm pretty sure there's a rules thread for this one. ;)

    My biggest issue now is trying to figure out what combat group to put all my dudes in. I've been including Fugazi's a lot too. I want to use more Sniffers, but it's just never been the efficient choice.
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Well apparently not if you're an American player in the final rounds of the Interplanetario...
     
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  14. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    No U-Turns declared in ARO? Lucky!
     
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  15. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    Nope. He only had Assault Hackers. ;)

    But you've managed to get the Hacker Targeted, I don't think they'd wanna use U-Turn anyway.
     
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  16. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Longtime SML/GML abuser here. I've only had U-Turn even be declared maybe 50% of the time due to either lack of basic HDs or the opponent just forgetting it was an option. Even then it's just a -3 cumulative for each hacker who can declare it.

    Back on the main topic, I really love Sat-Lock. You guys are right that it works best when you have an EVO for other purposes anyways. It's why vanilla or Bakunin Nomads are really the perfect storm: You have an AD unit who can Sat-Lock (or an ODD-packing remote who can Sat-Lock) and tons of Remotes to benefit from Overclock... including the Meteor and Pi-Well, but also the Lunakhod and Tsyklon. Then either HGL or SML to smash whatever got Targeted. Nasty combo overall. If Tunguska is even better at it (which I kind of feel like they might be, given that Interventors were the GML lynchpin in N2), opponents are definitely going to start talking about "The Dirty Nomad Trick" once again.
     
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  17. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    No dirty nomad trick again please....my wife used and abused that trick....
     
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  18. locksmith

    locksmith comlog active

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    Don't believe the hype. Camo marker information is private until the state is canceled.
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Camouflaged
    http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Open_and_Private_Information

    On topic:

    @jfunkd nailed it. Guided missiles have always been incredibly order intensive. They're like many things in infinity that seem shockingly effective when your opponent is unprepared for them. But a few adaptations later, they fade back into line with the many other tools in each army.
     
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  19. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Only half correct. Their use is highly situation-dependent, like most tools in Infinity. In the correct situation, it can be equally or even less order-intensive than other options, for generally a much lower risk of losing your own troops. That correct situation including things like ODD/TO troops in Suppressive Fire, infiltrated camo troops, troops hidden behind a wall of defenders and obstacles but that you could get a Sat-lock on, etc. In those situations, it is seriously stand-out awesome.

    If you can get either a Sensor trooper/Sniffer on the intended victim (preferable) or a Pitcher/Repeater (secondary option via Spotlight, lower chances and not usable via camo), or even just FO, that should take 1-3 orders to put in place, either to get a trooper into position to do it or to huck the Repeater in (and I do think shootable Sniffers are going to happen at some point). Getting Sat-Lock takes 1-3 more orders, Spotlight 1-5, FO 1-4 if you don't get your head blown off. Nomads have the big cheat for all this via the Meteor: I walk or drop mine on to get Sat-Lock from unexpected angles. AD or infiltrated Assault Hackers are a nice backup to have (as well as their own speedbump value).

    Assuming you put your missile launcher in its own mini-ordergroup with 5 dedicated orders and a few later-turn support troops like doctors etc. (a very good idea), you end up with 5 orders to kill whatever that was dead. If you do it in 1-3 orders as I usually do, you could Sat-Lock again with your main group to kill something else, or use your remaining orders to consolidate your position.

    Sure, SML is not an exceptionally efficient main tactic most of the time. It's a really good backup tactic though, a bit of the toolkit like you say but a really really good one for the right uses once you get skilled with it. And Sat-Lock (with an EVO of course) is way better for revealing camo than Intuitive Attack with anything that allows retaliation.

    Also, most of the above can be adapted to work with Heavy Grenade Launchers, if you want a bit more flexibity or need a direct-LoF bully unit to clear the way with an HMG when the situation calls for that.
     
    #19 Savnock, Mar 16, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  20. locksmith

    locksmith comlog active

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    so which half did I get wrong?
     
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