Saito Togan

I wouldn't use Oniwaban at all for 200 pt learning games they are harder to both play and play against imo.

 

I understood I'm just saying as a general statement.

 

Saito features in almost every 300 point list I make. This guy does it all... Critical source of smoke, order-efficient Specialist, top-tier melee assassin who excels against light and heavy targets, and even a respectable Suppressive Fire capable gunfighter (not that I usually use him in this context.) It's the Smoke, the EXP CCW and the Specialist option that set Saito apart from an Oniwaban.

Deploying Specialist Saito near an objective is an obvious application, but I like to put him in high-traffic locations for the enemy, perhaps near terrain that's likely to serve the enemy as a firebase, or near an objective that I expect the enemy to hotly contest at close range. In many games, it's possible to anticipate the flow of the enemy's turn so you can reveal Saito and have him CCing things within one or two Orders of coming out of Hidden Deployment. It's also rare I reveal him instantly... Turn 1 maneuvers can be good, but often his value is best when the game has evolved for one or two enemy turns, and his defensive deployment is partially disrupted. This creates the most opportunities for Saito to work.

A lot of players don't view Saito and Yojimbo as both being necessary in a list, but I actually tend to include both. Saito really benefits from having a midfield support crew to let him make maximum use of his abilities.

Saito has the best chance of survival and max impact if you can lay smoke for him without breaking his Camo state, which is where Yojimbo comes in. Yojimbo's mobility and the added range of the smoke lgl usually mean he can move quickly to assist Saito without telegraphing to the enemy where a hidden Close Combat monster might be hiding. Yojimbo's Koalas make great minesweepers for Saito also, helping to clear a path if Saito finds himself boxed in by perimeter/deployable weapons. Similarly, if Saito runs into trouble, Yojimbo has the mobility and enough diverse tools to potentially get Saito out of trouble.

If you really want to go the extra mile with support too, a Ryuken-9's mines and SMG Suppressive Fire, plus Yojimbo's Koalas, will really help insulate Saito from counterattack and help ensure you can use him over multiple turns. Ryuken-9 SMG deserves special mention because, if the Ryuken can absorb and blunt an enemy attack in the enemy turn, it sets them up for a counter-attack by Saito in your own turn. A Suppressing Ryuken that knocks a Wound off an advancing Heavy Infantry is a nice setup for Saito counter-punching to finish it off.

One of the nice thing's about Saito's CC is that he's so good that you can often even tackle enemy close combat Specialists, as long as you can benefit from Surprise Attack and they don't have i-kohl, 6th Sense, etc. to help counter it. CC master vs CC master is always a risk, but Saito is really top-tier in this regard. If you need to blow away a really hard multi-Wound or multi-Structure target too, you can even bypass that vaunted MA Lvl3 and go with double attacks instead.

In fact, Saito's so useful and multi-faceted that I actually think he breaks the internal balance of the Sectorial slightly. I'll always take him before an Oniwaban, unless there's a setting where I really need Superior Infiltration (like during Rescue.) I'll always Saito before a Ninja Specialist, which I rank as being not-that-useful unless you really need a Killer Hacking Device that isn't on a bike. I still use both Oniwaban and Ninja, but only after I've taken Saito.

The big dangers of course come from Sensor, or a strong MSV2 ARO piece that's denying a key area of the table. It's really important to have a strong backup firebase in cases like these, because you don't want a single Nisse Sniper or Bao ruining all your plans. Always leave Orders for Saito to retreat and re-camo... Suppressive Fire is a trap for a model of this type, unless you really need all-or-nothing defense to hold an objective on the final turn. Never leave Saito engaged with an enemy when your turn ends, unless you can guarantee that all Triangulated Fire platforms are gone from the table. Saito's very easy to throw away, so he requires careful planning to utilize, but he's amazing with some practice.

 

I would almost exclusively play Oniwaban centric lists at 200 points. You don't have the points for HI links and your opponent is much less likely to have counterplay.

 

If you want a TO beast, I think Saito's good at 200 just because he's so well-rounded. Oniwaban and Shinobu are killers, but @200 points, you confront the question of superior infiltrating them (a flubbed roll could cost you the game at this level) or just deploying them normally, in which case you might as well have taken Saito for his versatility.

 

I'm trying to build lists without named characters, but in JSA it's really hard (I don't count Yuriko, as I have a Kaizoku spec-Ops). The lack of smoke on any non-character model is making it a challenge, and the Nimbus grenade, while useful, isn't quite the same.

I guess I'm just not sure if Saito really is that necessary, or if it is possible to work around a smokeless list.

 

I think you want 10 Orders at 200 points, and I think you always want to start with at least 5 bodies for a Keisotsu link (really, that BS10 is awful if you can't juice it up to BS13 at all times.)

Looks like you're limited by what came in the starter though, so you might as well go for it.

Missed the above post in my last reply, so editing to respond to it.
I wouldn't get too hung up on excluding named characters. My lists usually include both Saito and Yojimbo, but Infinity has really easy proxy rules, so now I use converted, personalized miniatures to represent field operatives from Tasaka Strategic Consulting. The profiles are too valuable and helpful not to be utilized, but you can still depict them using whatever miniatures or backstory you want.

On the topic of smoke vs not smoke... Maybe you can get away with it in smaller games, but once you're playing full-size games, bring smoke. It's the single most powerful item of equipment in the game; it has the ability to ignore a core game mechanic with no disadvantages and no risk outside of using an Order and making a dice roll to place it. We're also talking about the close combat army of Infinity, which is entirely designed to close the distance and do damage with short-range firepower or in Close Combat, and which benefits the most from having smoke in a list. Bring smoke.

 

It's similar to my planned 200 point list.

Japanese Secessionist 9 1
KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9) KEISOTSU Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
KEMPEI (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
YURIKO ODA Combi Rifle + E/Mitter, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23)
SAITO TOGAN (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 40)
KUROSHI RIDER Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Breaker Pistol, AP + Shock CCW. (0 | 33)
RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)

0.5 SWC | 200 Points

Although I might switch out the KHD ninja for another ryuken 9 with smg if I need more midfield presence.

 

I was planning to use Yojimbo, unless Togan is that much better, I just struggle ot figure how to fit him+ninja+oniwaban in a list without keeping too many orders hidden away.

 

Yeah I hate the Game of Thrones model for Lupe and the even more obvious Deadpool so I do the same thing. I literally can't use a link without one. I don't mind McMurrough though.

 

Yeah that's tricky, so I've been treating the Ninja and Oniwaban as either/or. I've been seeing a lot of missions that don't require a high Specialist count, so that means I can often take the Oniwaban and skip the Ninja Specialist. I'm still working on finding the right balance of Specialists for extreme button pushing missions though... Fielding both Saito and the Ninja KHD is pretty decent, but I find my lists end up feeling a bit undergunned when I go that route.

 

Once I pick up the Yojimbo miniature (if I ever find it at a decent price, everything is sold out or like 50$) I can use his dismounted ver as Togan.

Meanwhile, I may use my CSU as Togan going incognito. Dunno.

 

I think Yojimbo tends to be amongst the first picks after getting the JSA box so the lack of stock makes sense. It should stabilise in a couple of months after the distributors catch up.

I'm glad I ordered mine direct with the JSA box during the free shipping period though!!

 

I used Penthesilea as the basis for a Kunoichi lady-ninja vague Tome Gozen homage conversion, but I already have Yojimbo (and more importantly, his Koalas.)

If you're feeling impatient though, don't wait around for a restock. Pick any good-looking biker model, and use markers or tokens as Koalas.

 

I can wait >.<

Given I want a keisotsu box, really can't go buying yojimbo.

 

This probably isn't the army you want to play without named characters. That's like half of our lieutenants as well.

If I'm going first and decide that superior infilitration is worth it, I usually deploy Saito as a marker near the midfield. The alternative is to play super swarmy and put Oniwaban in group one with 9 orders and Saito in group 2 with 4 more orders. You can just play the @barakiel list (yeah I've seen your 17 order lists :P) and put Saito in group 2 with 2 Pangulings, a Chaiyi Yaokong and a 9 pt Keisotsu (decoy lieutenant). You could add a Weibing for an additional specialist and Sensor capabilities (to go with your chaiyi), and you'd only be at 99/0.