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Ryuken are a treasure

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Teslarod, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    upload_2020-9-26_17-11-16.png

    Ryuken have Mimetismus (-6) on their Profile now, meaning the HRL now has one too. Combined with Surprise Attack and even the X-Visor this is very nice to have. Heavy Mods, makeshit Shotgun or makeshift Sniper go a long way.
    Slightly increased CC and no more penalty for D-Charges mean improvements when blowing up Immobilized targets or Objectives, +5 here is nice as well.
    Having an ARO piece with a Cube also raises the value of a Doc in the list ever so slightly.

    Cybermask succeeding automatically is very nice to have a Marker State for the KHD, even though he hight end up dead for having a KHD before getting to use it.
    Here's the N3 one for comparison:
    upload_2020-9-26_17-10-32.png
     

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  2. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Ryuken is an auto include, that supfire xvisor SMG right out the gate is as the kids say, clutch, I wanna say one of the best ARO pieces in the game and JSA needed something this good.

    The KHD and HRL are just insult to injury but work well with each other in unison, the HRL and base SMG overwatching the Hacker seems viable and so cheap.
     
  3. Thomashkis

    Thomashkis Active Member

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    Well, I myself do not share the delight with the profile in N4. For me the most useful profile has always been the Forward Deployment ODD guy, and they have just made him cost 2 points more. The unit is still very good, it can even start in Supressive Fire now, but it's more expensive than it was (CC change does not matter much as almost everything has generally higher CC now)...

    Also, they have killed one of my favourite tricks that was possible with D-Charges in N-3, which was planting them on the wall near the half of the table with no other doors on it, then detonating at a later time (for example in the next round) using a far away engineer (giving no ARO even if there were enemy models in ZoC of D-Charge or from Ryuken). Then you would just move a Ninja that was in Hidden Deployment there or any other unit throught the new point of entry and murder the unsuspecting enemy.
     
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  4. Firellon

    Firellon Optimising underdogs

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    New Ryukens are... a little different.
    - Yes, the 24-point ODD SMG X-Visor was absolutely fantastic, and I will keep taking it almost every game even if it's 26 points now (although I'm a bit sad they weaken our skirmishers game this way). They've gained nothing but 2 points price increase.
    - New HRL X-Visor Limited TO Camo Ryuken is very funky, but much more useful than he used to be - now Batou can reliably outshoot AROs and punish careless links heavily. Definitely worth taking now as an interesting mix of ARO/attacking piece.
    - KHD Ryuken is a double-edged sword and competes with perfectly capable Ninja KHD for the same points. I personally would prefer them to get Specialist Operative, like new fancy Hassasin Shujae guys, that are costing about the same points and perform a very similar sort of role.

    The main issue is that KHD Ryuken lacks the protection of the marker state, and as such can be gotten rid of rather easily in the midfield, be it direct templates (again, hello Haqquislam with ubiquitous light shotguns on every damn trooper!) or other Killer Hackers. If I want a specialist to grab the objective, I would consider either Ninja KHD or even Kuroshi Rider with Smoke LGL a better option. If I want to fry their brains, Ninja KHD has the surprise attack and better protection, while Aragoto KHD has the speed and is cheaper. If I just want to shoot things dead in the midfield - I would probably just ake the 26-point option and get rid of that potential liability, especially considering that there is no requirement to have a hacker to enlist remotes.
     
  5. QuietusEmissary

    QuietusEmissary Active Member

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    There's also the fact that the Ryūken hackers have to drop out of Suppressive Fire if you want them to actually hack anything. I still think that profile is a great addition, and I'm still going to use it a bunch, but it's definitely going to take some figuring out.

    The biggest upside, IMO, is that if you were already taking an SMG Ryūken and wanted a Killer Hacking Device, but were having trouble scraping together the points for the Ninja, now you have a workaround. Alternatively, if you were already taking an SMG Ryūken and find yourself with a few spare points left over, that's an excellent upgrade (and probably something that I'd take over the WarCor in most lists).
     
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  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Big difference is you can get your most exposed one to start the game in SF mode which makes them way harder to dislodge on turn 1, throwing a casual -12 MOD on your opponent is no joke.
     
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  7. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    I like the KHD a lot because it gives her access to marker state and additional utility. Being able to spend just 3 points and fill the KHD slot through a unit that was pretty much a must-take anyway is great. Now she can finally be a specialist, too.
     
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  8. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    Well KHD grants this unit a marker state and Surprise attack from one of it weapons (all tho i woud not go for CC ) and do mind they poses Braker pistol +1b
    and about hacking - this profile can hack only other hackers with Trinity so no worry in hard decisions "would i hack this Hi or loos Supression fire " - unless it is a Hacker Hi ;) or Cyber mask on herself
    At same cost ther is a Ninja Tactical Bow KHD
    and there is Aregato KHD .... Do we just get a gigant bike size immpesronatot -1 marker ?? a marker state bike ?
     
  9. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    The SMG Ryuken does not have Surprise Attack, so that's not happening, I'm afraid :P
     
  10. SpectralOwl

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    The KHD Ryuken would make wonderful bait for enemy Hackers. Throw it in Suppressive, let the enemy come forward to Hack it from behind a convenient building, and watch their face fall when you reveal a Ninja right on top of them.
     
  11. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Doesnt the rule for cybermask or impersonation state it grants surprise attack
     
  12. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Nope, they unnested all of that.
     
  13. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    Ye right they unnested it from Marker state not from Cyber mask :)
    Cyber mask rule mention of Surprise buttseks attack - but forget to mention - you need to get it as a separate skill now :) - thats why confiusion
     
  14. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Page 63 of the PDF, under Effects, Bullet point 4: "In their Active Turn only, Troopers in Inpersonation State may use the Surprise Attack Special Skill."

    I do understand the necessity of investing but this is a contradictory statement and unintuitive.
     
    #14 wuji, Sep 27, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
  15. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Also, cybermask and mimetism, hows that work in N4?
     
  16. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    I believe that part only means that impersonation state allows the use of surprise attack if a unit already has it, not that it grants surprise attack.
     
  17. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you're right cause the Fiday has both skills listed but some clarity and allowing KHD a little buff like that isnt gonna break the game and actually makes sense. If you don't know it's an enemy, you are gonna be surprised when its revealed that it is.
     
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  18. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    all tho i have still no idea how cyber mask work with mimetism and with a Biker on top of that - Aregaro KHD
    is Aregato using Cyber musk shrinking to a infantry token size ?? if so is he able to go thru small spaces ?? and then poof back to a "full size "
    and ye how cyber mask work on Ryuken with mimetism -6
     
  19. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Maybe ask IJW and see if he knows...
     
  20. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    place holder
     
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