So theres been some confusion over whats the wiki says and whats been written on the forum. Let me list two cases: Is this correct: Case A: A Karakuri has its full 2 wounds and dogged. It eats a missile and takes 3 wounds. It goes into its second unconscious state from G:Presence and then chooses to go Dogged. Case B: A Karakuri loses two wounds and choose to go unconscious. The enemy then spends another order to take one more wound off the Karakuri so it enters its second unconscious state. Can the karakuri still choose to go dogged? I'm pretty sure case A is accurate. Its case B thats an issue. If I ask different players whats the answer some will say YES case B is valid after reading the wiki entry. But there are other players and forum posts here that say Case B is invalid. So which is the correct answer and if case B is invalid then the wiki needs to be rewritten for more clarity because it is confusing a lot of players.
The FAQ is adamant that you have to choose whether to go Dogged at the end of the order in which you enter Unconscious. If you're already in Unconscious, you're not entering it. N3 Frequently Asked Question FAQ Version: 1.2 Q: How do V: Dogged and G: Remote Presence interact with each other? A: When a trooper that has both skills enters the Unconscious state for first time, the player controlling it has to choose which to use. If the player chooses to activate V: Dogged, the trooper will ignore the effects of the Unconscious state and enter the Dogged state. That means that the trooper will enter the Dead state at the end of the Turn, or if the trooper suffers a new wound before the Turn ends. If the player chooses to use G: Remote Presence, the trooper will suffer the effects of the Unconscious state, but will gain a second Unconscious level before entering the Dead state and it could be repaired meanwhile. Related Pages: Dogged, G: Remote Presence, No Wound Incapacitation, Unconscious, V: Dogged, V: No Wound Incapacitation
The problem is the second FAQ box that RAW reads as 'you can go Dogged when entering Unc2': I've asked this before in JSA forums, and got the clarification, but it seems that the confusion still exist - https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/karakuris-remote-presence-dogged-and-you-a-question.28674/
Those two are not mutually exclusive. The first one explains that you can't repair out of the Dogged state, that you can't use Remote Presence to effectively gain two Dogged states in the same round and that the Dogged state will prevent Remote Presence from activating when Dogged would kill the unit off.
Unconscious 1 and 2 are not two separate states, but two distinct levels of the same state. So a Karakuri taking three wounds in the same Order and directly entering the second level of Unconscious can use Dogged because they are entering a level of the Unconscious state. But a Karakuri that is already in the first level of Unconscious taking another wound cannot use Dogged because it is already in that state, and is just moving to the second level.
THIS is the clarification that needs to be in the wiki. Because native English speakers are reading the wiki right now and giving the incorrect answer. Who do I need to PM to get the wiki updated to be more clear?
N3 wiki is soon obsolete and is intended to reflect the official documents (books and FAQ) word for word.
I paraphrased my answer from the text for G: RP: Troopers with G: Remote Presence and an STR Attribute have two distinct levels of Unconsciousness. In game terms, when a trooper with G: Remote Presence loses all STR points, it enters the Unconscious state like any other trooper would. However, if the trooper receives damage again and loses one further STR point, it does not enter the Dead state as usual, but instead enters a second level of the Unconscious state signified by a second Unconscious Marker (UNCONSCIOUS). Only if the user loses further STR points does it fall Dead and is removed from play. But it's a bit late now considering that the wiki will be completely replaced in a month or so.
Thankfully in N4 they seem to be considering the electronic rules as the primary, rather than the printed.
colbrook's explanation needs to be pasted in the N4 wiki, because I got a feeling this issue is still not going to be clearly addressed. And Colbrook has given me the first clear and concise explanation of the rule that I have found. That I could understand anyway. lol Thank you, Colbrook.
I'm not even sure if @colbrook 's explanation is correct. I'm not saying it's wrong, either, but the rules are ambiguous either way.
This is covered well by Mahtamori and Colbrook. There is only one Unconscious State which you enter or leave, moving from one level of the same State to another level of the same State is not entering the State. It’s not like Impersonation where you have two separate States that do different things. @Death you PMed the right person, but you need to wait more than half an hour for a reply, late at night on the weekend in a different timezone! The N3 wiki and FAQ PDF are not going to be updated with this, it would be completely wasted effort given that it’s all about to be replaced.
