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Recommendations for a MO list?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Domino25, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. Domino25

    Domino25 Member

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    I realize there is a bit of a debate about "is MO competitive", and while I have my own opinions and wish list, I want to give it a solid try. I've read the is MO competitive thread, and the MO guide and the Heavy Infantry Guide but I still struggle to put a list together I like. I'm hoping the wise forumites here can help me figure out how to make the most of what we have, and how some of the pieces of this sectorial come together. (One unfortunate note, my local club doesn't use spec ops much)

    Firelane clearing
    I have a hard time accepting anything less than the Seraph HMG or Linked HMG for breaking out of the DZ. At least in my meta, I'm expecting to see 5 man linked snipers, missiles, feuerbachs and rockets; TO or Sapper Snipers and they all lock down more of the board/DZ than I'd prefer. Are there other solutions you recommend trying? Coordinated Panzerfausts or using TOFOOS somehow?

    Defense
    I've been trying to fit in a five man link with a father knight missile launcher or 5 man Magisters for some defense. Both take up the core link and are at odds between deploying for defense or the ability to move and attack. I also tried the TO Sniper once and got a single surprise in before he was killed. Hac Taos, Swiss Guards and link teams tend to occupy my greatest concerns, though infiltrators are another presence in my Meta.

    Obvious lieutenant

    I think I just need to accept that my LT is obvious, going upfield with a linkteam and probably my active shooter? The Santiago LT ends up in almost all my lists.

    Fighting Camo

    I'm not sure if I need to fit in a visor or if I just try to brute force though it with the link team. Do you always fit in special tools for this? The most obvious choice to me is to slip Konstantinos into a Link, but at the cost of one or two orders.

    Putting it all together
    I've been trying a Core (magisters) and a Haris (Hospitillars) of HI with order monkeys to fill out. Ideally splitting evenly 12 - 14 orders if I can. 1) Am I falling into a trap of doubling down on HI? 2) I'd really like some examples of other list designs that are working for people and the general game plan of how they play them.
     
    barakiel likes this.
  2. MrNailbrain

    MrNailbrain Relentless Optimist

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    12-14 orders is kind of a sad point for MO. I’d either double down on HI/TAGs with a limited insertion list, or disregard them entirely and try to hit 15 orders. I also think that discounting the Tikbalang is a mistake, that kind of mobility (and a visual mod too!) is worth its weight in gold when you are only playing with 11-ish orders.

    Joan is almost a must-buy as well, her free coordinate is useful and she lets you pump your order count significantly with cheap models. She doesn’t fit super well in fireteams so I’d almost prefer the Mobility Suit Joan as a reserve striker.

    MO is in a little bit of a rough spot, but not for a lack of great models. Playing MO is all about maximizing the effectiveness of your limited orders. They are susceptible to getting bogged down fighting against something and wasting a whole turn trying to outshoot a linked sniper, or dislodging a pesky Ryuken in suppressive. Always look for a way to bypass a shootout if you can. It’s hard to write a list that can play any mission in the game since specialists are usually expensive. Only take what you need.
     
  3. Domino25

    Domino25 Member

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    Thanks for the response, I like both Joan and the Tikbalang, the struggle I have with them is aside from the AP HMG, why play them in MO rather than vanilla. I've had some good luck with Limited insertion Joan Tag lists since Tac Awareness, but I want to expand my repertoire to include link teams.
     
  4. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Not an MO expert, but no stranger to PanO and ITS. My thoughts:

    Use the Sierra. If you give it supportware, it's effectively a BS14 HMG (more-or-less on par with a TAG or Heavy Infantry.) Additionally, a lucky opposing hit/crit is unlikely to remove it from play thanks to multiple levels of Unconscious, so it's easy to repair and try again. I think this unit plays a more important role in MO than in any other playable form of PanO.

    I think the Magister team has strengths to offer as well. The Sierra may struggle to dominate serious AROs, but Magister coordinated Orders will down them very easily. You can even combine the Sierra with Magisters for decent coordinated attacks... The Sierra's HMG at Burst 2 in a Coordinated Order makes it a good spearhead, backed up by 3 Magisters with their Panzerfausts/missile launcher. I think this is one of the safest, most reliable ways for PanO to crack even the toughest AROs.

    So that would look like: two Santiago, a few Magisters for your Core, filled out with REMs and a Spec Sgt or two as your Primary Group.

    Secondary Group would just be a handful of orders, containing your support choices: Doc, Engi, Hacker (either Spec Sgt or full EVO... Not sure there's a reason to buy the full EVO here, unless you really want to supercharge your KHD... But saving those few points can buy you a Warcor.)

    I think that gets you a pretty functional list, with an aggressive Primary Group, and a very effective small second group capable of keeping everything patched up.

    Something like this. You can play with the combat groups, and the Spec Sgt can be subbed for other units depending on the mission. A second Sierra, a TO FO Spec Sgt, or Dart would be good alternatives depending on the mission, as well as potentially having the Sierra in group 2. Not many ways to get around that obvious and vulnerable LT though:

    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]3
    SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33)
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #4 barakiel, Dec 30, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
    Ayadan and TheDiceAbide like this.
  5. MrNailbrain

    MrNailbrain Relentless Optimist

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    Sierras at AVA2 isn’t even something I’d considered, tbh. It’s been a while since I last put TR bots in lists and honestly it’s something I might start selectively including again.
     
  6. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Similar list but with multiple Sierra and some Sensor:

    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]3
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  7. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Vanguard Officer

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    I'm kind of intrigued by this idea, because my first instinct would be to throw a bulleteer in before reaching for the Sierra. Is it more in the context of OP feeling like they need an HMG, or do you think that the Sierra's total reaction is worth the loss of ODD?
     
  8. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    Do you think that a specops engineer+minelayer will be useful?
     
  9. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Speculating here, but I think the value there is the overwatch/defense that's associated with Total Reaction, not to mention the 360 visor. If knights are primarily fulfilling their role at short and mid range, it's nice to have an HMG for long range. Additionally, since MO struggles to get a really effective second combat group, the Sierra can fulfill its role without needing a ton of Orders. If you're buying a Bulleteer, you're probably spending quite a few Orders on it every turn. Those might be really effective Orders... The Bulleteer might kill a big pile of bodies... But it means your expensive link team spent that turn sitting around and doing very little. The Sierra doesn't hog a lot of Orders.

    That being said, the Bulleteer wouldn't be a bad alternative to everything listed above as well. Same with a Peacemaker, depending on the mission. I put a ton of value into PanO combat REMs, and often when I've hit a wall with my own listbuilding, I find that including one or two of the PanO combat REMs will resolve that issue for me.
     
  10. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Spec Ops are always going to be useful. You just need to find a tournament or meta that will let you use them.
     
  11. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    We are waiting ruleset for Italian satellite and past months there was a rumor about specops possibility...
     
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  12. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Yeah, Sierra is good because it's both an attack and defence piece. And with 360Visor, you're covering your back too. Never have used it in MO for now but I really see the potential. Every unit able to stand more than one role in MO is a valuable unit. And because of this, I have a lot of difficulties to see a Bulleteer shining in this sectorial. There is a ton of good Spitfire wielders and some can even be your Lieutenant so I don't think you need this Bulleteer as bad as you could need a Sierra. If I remember well, @daboarder was even using two in one of his lists during Nova Core tournament.

    IMHO, I think that, because of how the sectorial is designed, you need to predate the multipurpose profiles more than in any other army. You don't really have the luxury to dedicate a lot of units to only one role like DZ guarding, link filler etc. You can have some, sure, but not as many as a lot of other armies can.
     
  13. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    You could do Engineer, Doctor, Hacker, Minelayer. You'd have to protect your Spec Ops very carefully, but it frees up a huge amount of points for more combat units.
     
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  14. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    If you want to do something different, and unexpected, then you can go with something like this:

    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    CRUSADER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Or, this:

    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 31)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    4 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Basically you are taking advantage of the expectation of overwhelming firepower from PanOceania (which will make many opponents turtle) and then exploiting it with a rapid assault from Magisters with Joan (for the extra co-ordinated order).
     
    barakiel likes this.
  15. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    I might try playing one of the list here
     
  16. MrNailbrain

    MrNailbrain Relentless Optimist

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    Teuton MO──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2 TEUTONIC KNIGHT Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 37) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1 JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51) SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 5.5 SWC | 299 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    I played this last night into Unmasking and I’m super impressed. Pulled off a perfect third turn to take a 9-6 win. The list is blazingly fast, decently order efficient, and hits like a train. I might end up shifting one more model into group 2 to even out order counts a bit, and I’m desperately trying to find 6 points to upgrade the Teuton into a Santiago. Any recommendations?
     
  17. Domino25

    Domino25 Member

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    I wanted to say thank you for everyone posting your suggestions. I'm going to try some of these in my next matches, particularly getting that Sierra in play. I must admit, I continue to have a real mental compulsion to reach for a the Hospitalar Haris and then build a core team out of Magisters.

    I did find in my last game though I struggled a bit against Camo, both as prone rooftop for zone domination, and a TO:camo active attack/Suppressive defense. What are your favorite Camo answers? I'm looking at Dart, HRL + Aux and Linked Konstantinos. It also seems that one camo hunter is a single point of failure and due to Murphy's law, on the wrong side of the table.

    @MrNailbrain, could your remove the palbot with your engineer and drop the DA CCW Magisters to AP Magisters to get the santiago in? In my vanilla lists I noticed Joan's coordinated order can be a consolation prize to not having a pal bot.
     
  18. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    @Domino25
    Dart's one of the game's best options vs rooftop Camo, no question there. Sensor's also a crucial tool... You really don't want to commit several orders to maneuvering one of your units vs a Camo Token, merely to fail your Discover roll and have all those orders wasted. Being able to "Sensor Sweep" important clusters of hostile Camo can save a lot of Orders.

    If you don't have Dart, you might be able to rely on the ARM and 2 Wounds of your Heavy Infantry.
     
  19. MrNailbrain

    MrNailbrain Relentless Optimist

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    My game was against Corregidor camo (Intruder HMG, Intruder LT, 2 Assault Hacker Bandits, McMurder) and I just kind of ignored them for the most part. The bandits pushed buttons, the Intruder wasted orders shooting Magisters, and then I steamrolled all of them in the active turn. Having the Pathfinder + Fugazi is so important in PanO, and it’s doubly important in MO.

    If I was to drop a Palbot it would be the Doctor’s, usually all the fleshbags are grouped up but the bots are on flanks. That probably works though.
     
  20. miguelbarbo84

    miguelbarbo84 Well-Known Member

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    I'd also have Albedo BF in mind. He is a nice toolbox. Drop bears are a very good asset which also help vs units on rooftops, and when linked with OS and active Albedo he can clear msv aro pieces efficiently.
    I played him in a 3man core with the Santiagoa (starting with OS to clear AROs but later advancing just with those)and he's done a great job almost always.