Reactive turn Repeaters don't work?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N4 Rules' started by Spleen, Oct 6, 2020.

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  1. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    So I had it suggested to me that stealth didn't work against repeaters anymore, and while investigating that I went down a rabbit hole and I feel like maybe I've missed something really fundamental but it seems like the rules for repeaters are a bit broken?

    So the hacking rules define your hacking area as the troopers ZOC and the ZOC of any repeaters, and that's all repeaters do is provide hacking area, they have none of the N3 language suggesting you can hack through them "as though their ZOC was the troopers ZOC" or anything like that.

    And then... that's kind of all we are given, there's nothing that explicitly says a hacker can react to any orders in his hacking area. There is a weird example on page 61 of a hacker activating and declaring Idle, which prompts units in his hacking area but not in his zoc to declare resets (which seems at odds anyway with the ARO rules which indicate they don't gain valid AROs until they are the target of a comms attack).

    I went back all the way to the ARO rules chasing some clarification but they make no reference to your hacking area. The best thing I could find there is that they say an ARO is valid if the AROing trooper has a "piece of Equipment allowing it to react to enemy actions without LoF" but if you interpreted this as describing a hacking device then it seems every enemy order would allow all your hackers to have a valid ARO which could be used to declare things such as dodge, which seems even more broken than where I started.

    Can anyone find a rule that I've overlooked that would resolve this issue tidily?
     
    the huanglong likes this.
  2. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    The first half of the question is answered here: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/do-hackers-get-an-aro-when.37912/

    Per @ijw , hackers do indeed get to ARO through repeaters. He doesn't say why. In that thread I propose an explanation for why, fwiw. Either way, regardless of the reasons, we have @ijw 's ruling so the question is solved.

    In that thread, @ijw also confirms that hackers can ARO to put up Controlled Jump when someone activates in their Hacking Area, even though Controlled Jump is targetless. (White Noise worked that way in N3, so it's not a new weirdness).

    Your question about Dodge is a good one. If hackers can ARO when someone activates in Hacking Area, and the ARO doesn't have to target the active trooper, then I can't see any reason in principle why they can't Dodge. I suspect the answer will be "no," but I can't find a good reason why. I also suspect this may fall into the category of questions @ijw is currently unable to answer, so we may have to wait on @HellLois .
     
  3. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Kinda hoping you're right after this thread.
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/stealth-and-repeaters.38048/
     
  4. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    @QueensGambit thanks, looks like I should have dug some more before jumping in.

    I'm really not crazy about the reading that a hacking device satisfies bullet point 3 for the ARO, not just because of the dodge issue, but also because it would then seem to follow that hackers always generate an ARO to be declared after the first short skill and the enemy could exploit this to do such things as demand a hacker who can't see him aro (which can't be BS attack because he wouldn't have a valid target to assign burst to) before moving through the hackers LOF safely.
     
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  5. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Re: dodging on repeater area violation, I guess that’s a consequence of the new “has a valid aro” wording.
     
    Mahtamori likes this.
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