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Ranking YJ characters

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Oct 27, 2022.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Again I was bored lol.

    Exclaimer: This is my peresonal ranking list. It's based on my opinion.
    For mercs, I’m including those that are exclusive to YJ (Luna) and those that are “from” Yu Jing (Liang Kai, Taowu).

    Some of my criteria for a good character
    1. Are they meh, good, or fantastic, gunfighter or CC. Preferably both.
    2. Are they a specialist. If so can they do more than hit buttons.
    3. Then cost (if they are good for the price or not).
    4. Then if they serve a roll no one else in the army can do.
    I tend to like those that are fantastic at one of one those or good at all.

    16. Qiang Gao. He's 16 not because he's actually bad, it's because he might as well not exist. In Vanilla, WB, and IA you have options that are better for the same or only a few points more. This goes for both as a gun fighter and as a Lt. to me being irrelavent is worse that just being bad.

    15. Taowu. Taowu feels like he was put into Infinity becasue they didn'thave anything else at the time. He's not a specialist, not a good gun fighter and actually better with flashpulse. His one good skill is Couterintelligence but that itself is only good if going first. Otherwise he's there to be a bullet magnet with this holomask. It can be useful but I don't feel enough to be game chaning consisently.

    14. Chief Mech Chung-Hee Jeong. My main gripe with Jeong is his sqishiness vs. the price. He's a great ENG and a pretty good gunfighter but he goes down to a stiff wind.

    13. So-Ra Kwon. Technically she's not a character. She's a Veteran trooper. But she has a name so I'm adding her. She's an ok gunfighter but that's about it. She has a good BS but only ok weapons. Better than average I guess but could be better than that. If she was at least a Spec Op I'd have her higher on the list.

    12. Sun Tze HI. Sun Tze is to me is one of those characters that could be very good. I just find the skills he brings are just not worth his price. I want a charater that's consistently gives me something turn to turn. We have so much Tac Aware and NCO now that I don't find his Stratego Lt. order all that fantastic anymore. The only thing I still like is the ability to move troops to groups with out a command token but agian I'm not sure it's worth is his price. In vanilla I can take a Daoying with good NCO troops and in ISS his high price kinda hurts the rest of the force.

    11. Sun Tze MI. See above for some of what I said about the HI version. The thing I like about the MI over his heavy brother is that he is actually a good gunfighter. BS14 wtih MSV1 and a MSR is great. I just wish he had his mimetisim back. The main thing I don't like is his cost. I would never take his non-Lt. Ff I wanted a good sniper I would take Lunah, Le Muet, or Knauf.

    10. Adil Mehmut HI. I love the figure a lot lol. Much better than the MI. He's not a bad HI specialist and still pretty good in CC and he's Veteran on both versions. He's one of the few specialist Lt. we have. I just wish he was more than just a spec op.

    9. Adil Mehmut MI. Adil is one I really want to be better. He's a specialist but I feel kind of pricy for it. Also he's just a spec op. He can't do more than push buttons. There's of-course CoC, but it makes him ore expensive that I really like. he also looses Veteran then. He however is very good in CC and ok as a gunfighter.

    8. Jing Qo. Jing Qo is just on the edge of being really good. She's an ok gunfighter with BS13 and Mimetisim but only a multi-rifle. She's fantastic in CC but with no reliable way to get into CC. Her main draw is that she's a specialist (only spec op) with Climb+. So she can get to place she needs to be a little easier. Another character that's been overshadowed by Bixie.

    7. Lei Gong. I like LG but I hate how we need to choose between a specialist or a gunfighter. I don't like he's CoC because he's a specialist I want to use dangerously. I need to almost think of him as just a Spec Op instead. I also hate the SMG at times because there's been times were I really need the good range. So I end up using the SMR most of the time because he's a good gun because of his MSV and being in a fireteam. The Albedo is ok too but not a game changer.

    6. Xi Zhuan. He's one of those great for the points type characters. A specialist with ok weapons and madtraps are always useful. He's cheap enough I never feel bad taking him. I think he's better in ISS than in Vanilla though.

    5. Liang Kai. Lot of ability for the points. He's of course fantastic in White Banner in a fireteam. Being able to make 2 monks with him regular is amazing. But he himself is fantastic for taking almost anything down in CC.

    4. Tai Sheng. I think formerly our best before Krit got better and new characters came about. She's a good gun fighter with BS14 and FO specialist with NCO. She's good in both Vanilla and IA but in IA she's competing for points. The Chain of Command is also only ok if you are planning to not take a Daoying Lt. for some reason.

    3. Major Lunah. One of the best gunfighters we have. Especially for the price. She's fantastic in both Vanilla and ISS. A great combo of MSV+Camo and Vrial Sniper. The ability to take down almost anything.

    2. Krit Kokram. He was hard to rank 1 or 2. A character that's both a good gunfighter as well as a specialist. My only complaint is that he doesn't have D-Charages on his FD version.

    1. Bixie. Our newest character and so far our best. She's a good gunfighter with MSV and great CC with E/M CCW. But she's fantastic as a FO specialist who can get where she needs to be with fast movement, Climb+, Super Jump and NCO. She's also pretty good with her Dodge +6. Her price is a little high and she's vulnerable to hacking and E/M but I think everything else makes her worth it.
     
    #1 Space Ranger, Oct 27, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
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  2. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to disagree with most of this in some way or form.

    Trash Tier
    Qiang Gao (Relevant Factions: All)
    - Overcosted and devoid of purpose.
    Sun Tze ver 1.0 (Relevant Factions: All) - Hackable, obvious Lt that's extremely expensive while not providing much muscle of his own. You end up having to compromise a huge portion of your offensive capacity for a Lt that is vulnerable to some of the most powerful tools in the game.

    Mediocre
    Taowu (Relevant Factions: ISS)
    - Interesting profile limited by his fireteam options. Would be much more enticing in a more active Xian team that wants to fight futher up the field. Still, Deva MSV/CG smoke/Taowu can be an interesting haris, even if it's not at the top of the priority list for ISS. Very close to being solid, and his glass-cannon kit can put in work under the right circumstances.
    Chung-Hee Jeong (Relevant Factions: IA, WB) - Expensive for one wound. In IA he faces some extremely tough competition in Krit, and in White Banner his fireteam options limit any potential utility he may have. His kit is actually really interesting, but he can be hard to justify in any context he's available.
    Tai Sheng (Relevant Factions: IA) - This one's really sad. She used to be a cornerstone player in IA, but has fallen hard to the wayside with the introduction of other NCO options and the supremely versatile kit of Shang Jisus to the sectorial. She'd be really interesting if she could duo in Vanilla. For now though, she's not really bad in any way, there's just usually something better for any one purpose.

    Solid
    Sun Tze ver 2.0 ( Relevant Factions: Vanilla) - He presents an interesting alternative to the Daoying in vanilla that opens up list building options you wouldn't normally consider in the Yu Jing standard. As the foundation of an off-meta secondary list, he can really take an opponent unawares. He's not great with his gun (and should probably be a little bit better in that regard), but that sniper rifle can be put to use clearing a path for your main guns by taking out traditional unlinked ARO speedbumps with relative impunity. With the addition of Marksmanship and the ability to join Xian teams, he'd be in a perfect spot. As it stands, his high cost and lack of linkability makes him a hard fit in ISS. In my experience, he's extremely good friends with the Blue Wolf.
    Adil Mehmet (Crane Rank Armour) (Relevant Factions: ISS, WB) - The one Crane profile that's actually good. In both WB and ISS, he's a sturdy wildcard Lt that is good at controlling space. He's really hurt by that 4-4 movement that leaves him outpaced by all his best link partners, and is mostly outclassed by his MI equivalent. Still, he functions as a well-rounded Lt in both of his sectorials.
    So-Ra Kwon (Relevant Factions: WB) - If it weren't for her ability to absolutely dominate any mission with an armoury room, she'd be a total write-off. In fact, in any other context, you can send her straight to mediocre or trash tier. But in armoury missions, she's an absolute monster, among the best of the best that White Banner has to offer. Everything in her kit is set up to act as glue for a bulky fireteam while fortifying your defenses in an entrenched position, and she does that (and almost only that) disgustingly well. I'd rank her higher if her utility wasn't so specific.

    Good
    Jing Qo (Relevant Factions: WB) - The Raveneye update did a lot for her. The key to her strength is the ability to now join a Shaolin haris and turn them regular. On top of optimized order generation, they provide smoke to cover her advance, and the burst bonus makes her an extremely formidable active gunfighter, especially with the ability to attack from unconventional angles thanks to Climbing+. Usually a costlier, 'premium' alternative to Liang Kai when you have more points to spend, although she can also work well alongside him when kept in their own separate monk teams (haris for Jing Qo, duo for LIang Kai). Bixie may have stolen some of her thunder as an aggressive and mobile all-rounder, but don't be fooled, their fireteam options lend them to entirely different strengths, and they're both strong.
    Adil Mehmet Special Division (Relevant Factions: ISS, WB) - So much utility stuffed into one little S2 package. Melee monster, CoC staple to enable your aggressive Lt, linkable sensor, and handy in a gunfight. This man is peak glue. Lack of shock immunity hurts him a bit, so be careful with him as if he had one wound and you'll only be impressed when he survives to eat a second. His kitchen sink of a toolkit makes him a bit less straightforward than other troopers out there, but there's just so much he brings to the table that he's often my preferred CoC when I can fit him in.
    Lei Gong (Relevant Factions: IA, WB) - Basically tailor-made for all of IA's late N3 ills. Similar to Adil MI, his kit is a grab bag of linkable utility. In White Banner, you'll usually be picking one of them to your preference, and they both offer a lot.
    Major Lunah (Relevant Factions: Vanilla, ISS) - Pretty straightforward here. She's a great supporting gunfighter at a competitive price, and she brings a rare and valuable ammo type to the table.

    Great
    Liang Kai (Relevant Factions: WB, Vanilla) - Lodestone of the Shaolin link that defines White Banner as a sectorial. He bolsters your defense and is a living missile when on the offense. The Shaolin link attaches valuable smoke coverage to enable his advance, and lets him bring friends to the party to double down on the close-combat carnage once he gets going. Cheap and absolutely vicious, berserk makes even the mightiest threat fear his presence. Without the buddy system to take advantage of in vanilla, his viability drops down a whole tier, although he's still capable for his cost.
    Guy Feng Xi Zhuang (Relevant Factions: ISS, Vanilla) - The stickiest glue there is. He's cheap, versatile, and brings a fantastic supporting kit to the table. Use those mad traps not as defensive tools, but instead to force difficult ARO forks for your opponent on the offense. He's great pals with the Hsien MMR in ISS, but even in vanilla he won't disappoint, as his kit will still bring a lot to the table even without a fireteam (although you will admittedly have a harder time fitting him in there, he'll probably drop a whole tier).
    Krit Kokram (Relevant Factions: IA, Vanilla) - Krit started at the bottom, now he's here. There was a time when he was little more than a joke, but CB gave him one of the best glow-ups in their entire history. Krit FD is an extremely fun toolbox that offers a lot of raw firepower and utility within 14" (although he needs protecting, he's hackable, starts midfield, and has no marker state or visual mods). Krit FTO is an efficient staple of fireteams in both vanilla and IA. In either case, he brings so much to the table that you can't go wrong by taking him.
    Bixie (Relevant Factions: IA, WB, Vanilla) - Well... just look at her. She does a whole lot, and pretty damn well. NCO is a bit wasted in White Banner, and the loss of MSV2 from the original preview is always going to be a sore spot for me. Still, there's not a single faction she's in (even you, Starmada) where she won't bring some serious value. I resent the idea that she'd be Yu Jing's best character, or the notion that she could even be considered 'auto-take' in any of her factions (IMO, I'd rate Liang Kai, Adil MI, and situationally So-Ra as better in WB, and she's in extremely harsh competition with Krit in vanilla and IA). But she's a worthy consideration at any time, which is better for the game as a whole, anyway.
     
    #2 Weathercock, Oct 28, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2022
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Nice analysis and I mostly agree with Weathercock.
    I'd note that I don't often find myself missing anything that Lei Gong would bring, what he has over other similarly priced units is Albedo and MI status but it's seldom those matter enough to make the kind of awkward juggle of his weapon loadouts worth it. As noted this was an N3 toolkit when one-wound MSV2 snipers had a time period as the norm. By the same coin I'd rank Lunah higher. She provides a utility that's specific to N4 which takes her from being Good versus a generic list to being Great versus lists that rely on low-BTS units to alpha strike.

    Xi Zhuang isn't bad at all, but he's kind of a Zhanying that counts as Celestial Guard in my book. As such he kind of goes down in ranking for me.

    Finally a small note on Cheung. His utility is amazing. It's a very interesting profile that, if you try him out, will probably surprise you. It's very difficult to justify the price as there's something fishy going on there (really shouldn't be more expensive than a Govad Engineer on either load out), but the utility of having an unhackable repeater covering your hackable units' advance and then a 16" K1 gun to severely punish any TAG that overextends near him is chef's kiss good.
     
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  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Disagree entirely on the Chief, he makes something like 8/10 IA lists for me. A mobile repeater is incredibly good value as are non-hackable engineers and mines are extremely useful in corralling camo aggressors away from your fireteam.
     
  5. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Since I hasn´t played Bixie yet (she get her painting session in december I guess) my favorite charakters are:

    Krit - very useful in a game of Cyrogenics were he killed a Dragoner in end with his HSG, blocked the direct route for the same TAG with his mines and opend the last techcoffin

    Jing Qo - who perfomed very well in my latested games with WB

    Xi Zuhan - who did not killed anything, but let the opponent eat orders to remove the traps and gets annoyed to end up in stunned state ;-)

    I also like Adil a lot, he is a great toolbox and when he can get in CC he perfomed very well, Tai maybe overshadowed with the newcomers but she is still a good perfomer - I love to run her in a haris were she starts shooting when in good range for the breaker. Sometimes I play Liang but struggle to get him to good use. Last time I used Luna is while ago - she is a very deadly sniper now.

    Since I don´t own Sun Tze I never played him and never missed him.
     
  6. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    @Weathercock, I'm a little curious for an example of a vanilla build where Sun Tze v2.0 is better than Knauf and a Daoying. I've been through the woods arguing for the utility of an 11th order in a group though, so maybe that's it. Counterintelligence + strategos gives you a fairly guaranteed 10 order alpha strike, with higher chances of going first than a Daoying. On the other hand, Knauf will delete the enemy ARO pieces in fewer orders and less risk to your LT, so maybe it's a wash.
     
  7. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Well, first off, you're not taking Sunny 2 for the gun. If you do get use out of it, great. But other than popping the occasional warcor or flash pulse bot that might otherwise put a wrench in your plans, he's really not good enough of a gunfighter to try to earn his points back (and he absolutely does deserve a few buffs in that regard).

    His value comes in being able to pick first turn with decent odds while also being able to withhold three troopers to gain the benefit of hiding the most important parts of your deployment. You can then treat group 2 as less of a support group, and more as a bench where you can freely rotate in secondary pieces as the situation demands. Essentially, it let's you engage in an extremely alpha-heavy playstyle.

    The Daoying is better, for sure. Sunny still pays a lot for what he gets, and his gunfighting ability is mediocre for a so-called 'marksman.' But he's competent enough to be usable, different enough to be a curveball for your opponent, and funky enough to make for some pretty fun list building opportunities.

    I find he gels quite well with the Blue Wolf. One example I've quite enjoyed is this one here:

    gMkHeXUtamluZw1Eb2dneSBzdHlsZSAygSwCAQkBgKUBBAAChdcBAQADgJICAQAEgJIBAQAFgJIBAQAGgJIBAQAHgJIBAQAIhTUBAgAJhiIBBQACBgGAggEFAAKGAQEDAAOAjgEBAASAiAECAAUyAQEABoXUAQMA
     
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  8. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    Looks fun. As well as the Alpha Strike, the double/triple reserve drop has a lot of synergy with our relatively deadly hidden deployment ARO pieces. You could really scare an opponent by reserve-dropping two Hundun HRL covering an obviously deployed link, for example. Add a Hac Tao ML if you want them to really hate you.

    I'm making a lot of hay punching Krit and an HSG Su Jian upfield with NCO orders. Something like this, though I also have a version with Lunah and a Libertos.

    gMkHeXUtamluZwhDaGFpbnNhd4EsAgEIAICSAgEAAICSAQEAAICSAQEAAICSAQEAAICSAQEAAIWlAQIAAIXXAQEAAICbAYpyAAIGAIOrAQEAAIYBAQMAAIYBAQMAAITcAQQAAIYiAQUAAICIAQEA

    (Also, I should give credit to @Chainsaw for this, as it's a very minor variation on the list he trashed my Kosmoflot with at the Rose City Raid. It looked so fun I stole it.)
     
    #8 YueFei23, Nov 2, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
  9. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    Regarding the character tier list, I guess I'm mostly in agreement with Weathercock.

    Qiang Gao is a wierd unit, who loses out by comparison to Shang Ji and Yan Huo as a gunfighter and Daoying as an LT2. You're also in a weird position of bringing two orders to a link but not being able to spend them on Qiang Gao, who really wants to lead from the front. I wish they could switch his BS attack buff to AP ammo and give him NCO, then I could see a use for him as an amusingly high-risk fusion of two must-take units.

    Taowu is one of those units that creeps up my personal rankings because of the rule of cool. If you can sneak him up in a link and mono something tasty or surprise viral pistol a bear, you can trade on the story for a week or two. He is terrifying in close combat, which is always handy.

    I'm a little puzzled why we're including Taowu, Liang Kai and Lunah but leaving out Sforza and maybe Miranda. Hard to know where to draw the merc line, as clearly other characters like Knauf are included in almost every army. Sforza only shows up in a couple of sectorials though, and ISS have a longer standing claim on him than Tunguska or Dahshat. Both Sforza and Miranda have good relevance in ISS, as they have special ammo w/ +1B for putting down TAGs.
     
  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I only included mercs that are exclusive to Yu Jing (Lunah) or native to Yu Jing. Sforza, Miranda, and others can be in many forces and are from PanO, Ariadna, Tohaa, etc.
     
  11. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    Liang Kai is about on par with Sforza for exclusivity. Liang Kai is in Svalarheima, vanilla Pan O, and White Company. Sforza is in ISS, Tunguska and Dahshat. Liang Kai has seen the inside of a Shaolin temple and I like to think of him as YJ native, but he's kind of a merc too. It's pretty disgraceful that he'll fight for Pan O.

    I like to think that Sforza is an ISS native, as his full sanction bounty hunter patch and regular order profile dropped during the Strikezone: Wotan campaign, when Tunguska and Dahshat didn't really exist yet. At that time, and before the other two sectorials launched, he was an ISS-exclusive character.

    Miranda is woollier as she's now included in a few more places, but her full sanction patch was dropped at the same time, related to some Yu Jing edict on the usage of Bounty Hunters. This is fairly ancient history now... just that Yu Jing can kinda-sorta claim those two characters as part of ISS faction flavor.
     
  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    The Buddha sees no boundries. To me he's still Yu Jing. Also the list would be huge. Because it would include also Wild Bill, Le Muet, etc.
     
  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't think making Qiang Gao try to compete directly with Shang-Jisus is a good idea, which is what he'd do with AP ammo and NCO. Instead I'd like to see him assume a niche; tinbot on ECM and NWI to both increase points a lot and give survivability. He's wearing a mini-Mowang armour after all. Oh, and a Heavy Shotgun profile which might come with an extra ability or gun to keep points up.
     
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  14. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    Qiang Gao as a mini-Mowang would be could, now that we don´t use Mowangs all that often either.

    Up his armor to Brigada/Mowang level, add Mimetism, trade down the weapon to HSG and Spitfire. Keep veteran, keep the lower PH, add NCO. He would add something that no-one else brings to an Invincible team, and would be ANOTHER contender for 40-50 pts slots there:

    - ShangJesus: long range tinbot AP
    - LeiGong: unhackable visor anti-visor mid-range specialist
    - Zuyong: cheapest paramedic filler
    - Bixie: short-range visor CC beast NCO FO
    - Krit: Long-mid-range Engineer NCO
    - Qiang: Mimetic medium-range tank
     
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  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Dunno if making Qiang completely replace Mowangs is a good idea, either...
     
  16. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    Mowangs cannot link thou, so... but yes, he would be better than a Mowang at that point.
     
  17. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Theres a ton of good points here! I’ll through my 2 cents on Lei Gong CoC: Fantastic profile. I used to alway wonder why I would want that over the SMR profile, but after using it on and off for a year, I almost always go to the CoC profile. Aside from the obvious advantage of being CoC, I find his close range tool kit (and blitzen) and MSV1 highly effective when he is paired up with a Shang-Jisus or the like. He is naturally suited to go after any of those pesky camo/mim-3 hackers that want to bully our lord and savior, Shang-Jisus.
     
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  18. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I don't think QG needs a radical change. Just enough to make you want to take him instead of the Shang Ji. Same but different. I would love different weapons but since he's modeled with the HMG I don't see them adding anything, any time soon. What they could do is change his BS skill and also change the ammo type.

    The Shang Ji has AP+Shock on the HMG so he's good against almost anything with or without ARM except for Immunity (Total). The one thing about his +1 DMG is that TI can't change that. But to be better than AP it should be +2 Damage. Or it could be good if it had ammo to go against BTS. A few TI have 0 BTS. This is why I suggest Breaker.

    For Leadership skills, the Lt. +2 orders is nice however it has many drawbacks. As mentioned, he can't use them himself without announcing he's the Lt. or he's in a fireteam. Also our NCO's tend to be as expensive or more than he is. So I think instead of Lt+2, give him Stratego L1, or Counterintelligence, or Inspiring Leadership (It's not like we have a tone of Irregulars to take advantage).

    I think he's also presented as a bit of a Tank in Defiance and as mentioned supposedly has modified Mowang armor. Modified to be worse? Whoever wrote that didn't know much about Mowangs. If anything Modifed Hac Tao armor would make more sense. ARM5 and Mimetisim would automatically make him a bit better than the Shang Ji. Sadly they would probably make him more expensive and again I wouldn't take him. But other things they could do is Immune (Critical), Dogged, or NWI.
     
  19. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    For my bottom half, here's one thing I would change or add to make them better:

    Qiang Gau: ARM5
    Taowu: Special Operartive
    Jeong: Mimetisim -3
    So-Ra: Chain of Command
    Sun Tzu HI: BS13
    Sun Tzu MI: Marksmanship
    Adil HI: Para CCW -6
    Adil MI: MA L3
    Jing Qo: chang existing to FTO. And a Camo version.
     
  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    MAdil caps at MAL2 because any higher is wasted on him. I wish they'd either unlock Mono CCW to benefit from MA or make the weapon dirt cheap to reflect that it's potentially the worst special CCW.

    Most characters in the bottom half don't really need much beyond fireteam revisions. I dunno if there's any need for making them all good in vanilla (i.e. as a stand alone unit). Like, both Suns really need to be able to get into Zhian fireteams and probably Aleph and/or Celestial Guard one as well as having a unit tag that's relevant, but only Sun1 is in dire need of a revision. It's okay for the Suns to not work well in vanilla because vanilla has access to Daoyings and NCO so Sun won't do much good there.
    Jeong's a bit of a special case in that fireteams are already good for him. I feel he's a curveball that needs to be encouraged so even if he's accurately priced I think he should drop a bit to promote the asymmetric play that his profile generates for IA.
     
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