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Ramah Taskforce Guide (2019) - Bourak's Finest

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Lazarus0909, Jul 26, 2019.

  1. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
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    As a curious player I used most of Haqqislam units in the times of N2 and N3 and also the Fassids.
    And they did usually rather good, I was happy with them, preferred the HRL option. One of the best actions was surviving by him few orders of close attacks of PanOceanian Guarda de Assaulto with his Bot - Sixth Sense, high PH helped a lot. And in the next active turn Fassy killed Guarda in one great burst of his AP SMG...
    In N4 I'm happy they got +1 burst and the true Sixth Sense, it's a nice buff. But in the same time they should've get some points discount, especially in comparison with Janissaries or Asawiras, who both get big discounts or big buffs.
    And Shakush is also a problem. Fassys are more versatile and easier to take up with our doc +, but still I think I'd prefer Shakush. Definitely will try him and see for myself.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings


    P.S. Know it's not the place, but I'm really interested if AzRa'ils will be in N4 and how they will be different to Fassys. And how cheap will they be - I like those fatties and would be glad to have some cheaper big guy. If not - I can just use Shakush ;)
     
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  2. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    RT was my favorite sectorial; however, with the Khawarijs being so cost prohibitive for one wound I cannot bring myself to field them. That leaves me with a few other cores but at this point they feel redundant or outclassed by HB. Because of this, which may be a good thing, I have scrapped all RT lists. In the end, the sectorial feels boring, by wanting to play like a brick but without the points to field it.
     
  3. vorthain

    vorthain Well-Known Member

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    I am still feeling out the options, but they do have a lot of 30ish point units that (a least in my list building) makes 15 orders challenging even with a Ghulam core team.
     
  4. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    I feel like the framework of RTF has changed a lot. The super-soldiers all seem to have taken a backseat now, which is a shame. Like all the major AP options are from Janns, the new char, and the TAGS. To me, this is disappointing as I loved the super-soldiers. Khawarij seem even more hard to fit in, and while the Muhktars are still just as good, they don’t really have the options to take down HI/TAGs that will be more prevalent. Don’t even get me started on Nahabs losing their cool Infiltration/AD combo.
     
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  5. vorthain

    vorthain Well-Known Member

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    Who wants to rank our MSV2 options?

    Option 1: the Khawarij! Good stats all around but pays a premium for them (38 points). Has NCO and so get a bonus order to act, jump potential, and has the highest damage on his weapon at a powerful 16.

    Option 2: the Mukhtar! Not quite as pricy but still up there (36 points), but fast, the highest burst weapon, 2 templates, and useful skills to keep up fighting longer. On the the other hand, he has the worst armor and weakest weapon.

    Option 3: Yara Haddad! The newcomer, inexpensive (25 points), with same armor as Khawarij, and same base damage weapon as Mukhtar with the bonus that AP is usually more useful - plus burst 3 on her heavy pistol.

    Which is your preference, if you had to pick one? I think I was originally team Mukhtar, but with armor being better against crits, Yara and Khawarij have their pluses.
     
    #265 vorthain, Oct 5, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  6. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Just for reference, here’s the results of a critical hit from Dam13 Normal ammo, so from a Combi Rifle etc.

    ARM1 1+W on 84%, 2W on 36% (Mukhtar in open)
    ARM3 1+W on 75%, 2W on 25% (others in open)
    ARM4 70, 20 (Mukhtar in Cover)
    ARM6 58, 12 (others in Cover)

    Obviously none of them are going to like getting critted, but the Mukhtar in the open is on more than a third chance of losing ‘both’ Wounds, and 25% even in Cover.

    This gets worse as the Damage goes up, against Dam15 the Mukhtar in the open is on about 50 of failing both Saving Rolls, so whatever you do, don’t go up against a Reactionbot unless you can get it down to -12!
     
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  7. vorthain

    vorthain Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! That casts it in sharp relief. MOV 6-2 and NWI are obviously huge, but if he gets caught in the open...yikes.
     
  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Exactly!

    EDIT - as a quick way of remembering, if the adjusted Damage is 10, there’s a 25% chance of failing both Saving Rolls from a Crit, and if the adjusted Damage is 14 there’s just under 50% chance.
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Oh, and for further amusement/horror, don’t whatever the bleep you do let a Bearpode reach CC with your Mukhtar - on top of a 25% chance of critting, a Crit has more than 70% chance of doing 2W against an ARM1 target. Eek.
     
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  10. vorthain

    vorthain Well-Known Member

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    I think staying away from bearpode in CC is just solid advice.
     
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  11. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
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    And it's a good advice for almost everyone in Haqqislam :P

    About MSV units - Yara is definitely interesting, very cheap for her profile, high BS, nice overall stats. Linked can be a great sharpshooter.
    I also like Khawarij, had very nice results with Mk12 earlier.
    But still - for me Mukhtar is on top of those units. Fast, hard to hit, doesn't need support of fireteam to work. Great hunter. I'm intrigued if the new edition change something in my opinion. I'm aware he'll have tougher times against crits, but hey, that's crits - they are always dangerous* ;)


    PozdRawiam / Greetings

    *) In a tournament game against fellow Haqqislam player my freshly painted Shihab AROed enemy's Mukhtar on two crit "5" in one burst. It was just fair play of mine - I told him earlier that I'll get a crit, because the opponent was so sure he's able to slice the pie against my Lasiq and Shihab positioned one over the other. And oh boy I did :D
     
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  12. vorthain

    vorthain Well-Known Member

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    Well, not just tougher time against crits but hits in general. Or just grab all 3 for 100ish points.
     
  13. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

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    I don't think ranking the three of them against each other is really the right approach, since you're not going to be taking them as solo pieces.

    In N3, I usually used the Khawarij Mk12 as my main gunfighter in a mixed core. In N4, Yara does that job about as well for much cheaper. Of course, the Khawarij proves much better CC and super-jump, but those didn't come up most games. The big advantage to the Khwarij is the higher damage, which is better against everything ARM 5 or less. I don't put much value in the NCO in this role, since you would always be taking the Ghulam NCO as well.

    Where I see the Khawarij Mk12 having a place in N4 is with the increased viability of a Khawarij Haris. This was an option in N3, but Rouhani becoming a wildcard helps make it a lot more appealing. Of course, in this role, he's competing much more directly with the Mukhtar red fury, since they have traditionally been our strongest haris option. I'm not sure what to think of them in N4, though. IJW talked about their vulnerability to crits, and the red fury only being damage 13 might be much more of a liability with the shift toward HI and TAGs, especially when the other haris options are all packing damage 15+ on their big guns.
     
  14. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    I don't play Ramah so I can't add much to the strategic discussion, but out of curiosity I ran a couple of numbers on the armor vs. crits question. I'm looking at the active unit shooting at a Tikbalang at 16-24 range. Both are in cover, and the Tik is in suppression. Chose that particular scenario because the active unit has very good odds to win the f2f, but nonetheless has a significant fear of getting crit. (Also, the Tik has high ARM so we can also see how much difference Yara's AP ammo makes).

    Here is an unlinked Mukhtar:

    Active unit inflicts 3+ wounds: 0.40%
    Active unit inflicts 2+ wounds: 4.22%
    Active unit inflicts 1+ wounds: 26.41%
    No wounds: 58.60%
    Reactive unit inflicts 1+ wounds: 14.99%
    Reactive unit inflicts 2+ wounds: 5.35%

    And here is Yara in a core link:

    Active unit inflicts 3+ wounds: 2.38%
    Active unit inflicts 2+ wounds: 12.96%
    Active unit inflicts 1+ wounds: 43.33%
    No wounds: 43.03%
    Reactive unit inflicts 1+ wounds: 13.65%
    Reactive unit inflicts 2+ wounds: 4.02%

    So Yara is over twice as likely to go down to bad luck, 13.65% to 5.35%. Most of those results will come from crits.

    But, Yara is also nearly twice as likely to wound the Tik (that comes partially from AP ammo and partially from having +3 BS vs. the Mukhtar's mimetism).

    In practice, though, you wouldn't want to take this fight with either of them unless the Tik was already wounded. Yara would still take an average of 7 orders to put the Tik to unconscious, which is too many chances for it to roll a lucky 13.65%. And it would just fail guts once she managed to do a wound or two. If any Ramah players want to propose a more plausible scenario for comparing performance between them, I can run the numbers on that.
     
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  15. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    Dunno, I feel like the Nahab could make bear sushi.

    Sure, it will be virus infused bear sushi, but that's what being a genetic freak is for, right?

    Eating virus infused bear sushi.
     
  16. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Just don’t try it against a Cameronian, with its own NBW!
     
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  17. vorthain

    vorthain Well-Known Member

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    A suppression Tik is def a hard target. I'm also surprised ARM1 vs ARM3 only amounts to about 1% survivability difference, if I'm reading it right. I wonder about comparison to the msv2 mk12 Khawarij?
     
  18. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

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    The Khawarij should be putting up the exact same numbers on Yara. They should be hitting on the same number and both will roll their BTS 3. Against armor 6, the higher damage from the Mk12 and the AP from Yara should cancel out, so the Tikbalang needs to roll an 8 to save against either.

    I'm also wondering about smoke, since the troopers we're looking at all have MSV2. I know you said that most of the Tikbalang's damage was coming from crits, but how much does it improve the numbers to give the Tikbalang a -6 for shooting back through smoke?
     
    #278 Koval, Oct 6, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  19. vorthain

    vorthain Well-Known Member

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    If that is the case, that is pretty tough for the Khawarij given the price difference. And I guess solo Khawarij would be even worse. I also just wanted to make sure Bioimmunity was accounted for since it is improved and the larger percent differences in IJW's math above. And yes, smoke could be critical also, no pun intended.
     
  20. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    My maths was purely for a single critical hit, and didn’t cover the actual FtF Roll.
     
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