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Questions from our first campaign.

Discussion in 'Modiphius Entertainment' started by gravitypool, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. gravitypool

    gravitypool Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    So, I`m running a little campaign with a local group. So far we played the AWOL scenario and now we are doing some personally created stories.

    During the game we met with several questions both from rules and lore.

    Rules
    - If you have any of the talents that lets you trade skills in order to make a roll (For example, roll Stealth instead of Command or Persuasion for Fidays) can you use any other related Stealth talent on that roll, like the reroll talent?

    Rules/Lore
    - The group has a very anarkist Nomad hacker that thinks everyone is plotting against him. That and the fact that everyone is running fake identities makes him just want to hack into everyone's comlog on first sight. I know it's possible to hack into comlogs from some of the adventures but how delicate is the actual content of a comlog? One of the members of the group was a fiday with several personalities. Would hack into it's comlog reveal all his personalities? If the information in comlogs is so relevant, how can it be protected against hackers, specially a guy that usually has guaranteed 3 to 4 successes on hacking rolls?

    - How safe are secret identities? From the rules, creating one seems like a simple roll but in my mind implies a lot of work from the characters. One of my chars has several past enemies. Would they be able to track her through secret identities? What do secret identities imply on a quantronic universe? Are they just papers or also imply fake lifes on the net?
     
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Discovering a Fake ID is a D(x) Hacking/Analysis/Thievery test under 'careful inspection'. So if you assume that Fake IDs need a data trail (they do now, so they certainly will in the human sphere) then that data trail is detectable on a Commlog.

    But its not that easy, it's multiple tests all with a chance to be detected.

    1. Break into the Commlog. So this is a Hacking test to gain access to the Commlog.

    2. Now you have access, D(x) Hacking test to discover the Fake ID. Since this is a 'careful investigation' I'd give it a timeline of 10s of minutes at least, hours probably.

    So now you've discovered the ID that the Fiday is currently running is Fake. But what about his other IDs?

    Well when TrueCrypt was a thing it would allow you to run multiple hidden partitions. So this seems like smart practice in a Quantronic world when you're working with a paranoid Nomad Hacker who gives no fucks about convention.

    3. So a test to find something hidden on the Commlog, I'd do this as a D(highest Fake ID) test with each additional success revealing additional IDs (I'd randomly determine the IDs).

    4. Then it's a D(x) 'close inspection' against each Fake ID to determine if it's Fake or not.

    5. Even if the Hacker knows about the real ID I'd still make them test to Discover whether it's Fake or not (instead I'd say 'You are unable to Determine if ID x is Fake or not'. The only way they should know if it's Real is if they go 'wow... that's a lot of successes and I still don't know if its Fake or not... hang on'.

    N. B. I wouldn't tell the Hacker what the Difficulty of each close investigation test is.

    The point of that exercise is its not a quick process and he's likely to be detected at various points. Particularly since he probably doesn't have access to the groups pool of momentum because he's effectively attacking another PC.
     
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  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Also, potentially the information relating to the second and subsequent IDs (including the real one) aren't stored in the comm log but rather in a cloud facility that the Hassasin maintains for that purpose.

    The Hacker would probably be able to determine this (the discovery test to work out where the second and subsequent IDs are hidden), but breaking into a Hassasin secure facility... that seems like a complicated way to commit suicide.
     
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  4. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Welcome to the community.

    How did you find that mission?

    Yes, if you can use a skill then all the appropriate talents also apply.

    That sounds like it could be a problem character, I generally enforce a "make characters who trust the other PCs at least" rule in my games to avoid PVP paranoia derailing the narrative.

    Sounds like your Nomad needs a couple of scares from OP Hacking combat Geists ambushing them when they try to hack into things without a good reason, but it's valid a lot of the time.

    I'd assume that any vaguely competent infiltrator will have separate Comlogs, Geists and personal patina clouds for every identity. If the PC doesn't have that set up (it's super cheap to do, so funding won't be an issue) then you should probably suggest it and retcon it into existence. Because, yes, otherwise the "multiple identities" thing is probably going to be relatively easily discovered with a few Analysis checks once access to the Comlog has been attained with 5 Breaches.

    Number of successes on the hacking test is only so useful, they have to chew 'through Firewall and inflict 5 Breaches before they can penetrate the system of a PC. And any PC who doesn't have decent hacking themselves should be setting up their Geist to help, and/or using a Deflector.

    The rules for them imply that they are more than just paper. But a determined enemy is likely to catch up with someone with enough time and effort sunk into it. Remember that remote accessing things is hard 'though, so if they change identity every time they change planet it'll be hard for an enemy to gather the info necessary to find them.
     
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  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    It's actually an interesting exercise. I'm not sure that entirety physically separate skins is the best way to go. You lose a lot of flexibility: but it is more secure.

    It's probably best practice for your real ID though: even if you have multiple fake IDs / skins for your 'Infil Geist' loaded in hidden partitions on your comm log so you can change relatively 'on the fly', leave your real ID/real Geist air-gapped.

    OTOH even if I completely trusted my fellow PC's, if I was a paranoid Hacker with no regard for social norms I'd completely pwn my colleagues Commlogs and install a hidden Crybaby programme on them. I'm doing it for their own safety you understand ;)
     
    #5 inane.imp, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
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  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    It is quite likely that a Fiday will have several Comlogs, carry two with him and have the rest hidden, with replaceable data and self-destruct mechanisms if they are not accessed in certain ways; all of those redundant comlogs would be turned off, and if they have a removable battery it will be out. Now, about what each of those carries, a single full and inconspicuous ID, several "generic" and "fast to use" IDs, and the program to copy the required data to look like the ID of someone the Fiday wants to impersonate (essentially a "clone that ID" program, probably that requires physical interaction).
    So the hacker would see the ID the Fiday is using. And if he founds the partitions with the generic ones ("janitor", "beat cop", journalist", "paramedic", "messenger/UPS driver", etc...) and the cloning program partition he can deduce it is a Fiday, if he wasn't directly told.

    Now, 90% of the paranoids would flee and hide as far as they can if they discover they are working with a ghost that can replace anyone, get close, and kill you without no one realizing it... so not the best character concept, I'd say.
    Now, if he is being properly paranoid, he will be more interested into installing an untraceable backdoor with some passive tracing options (so he can download the route when he is close, but is not constantly monitoring the Fiday's position), and event that won't serve much against a properly trained Fiday (who will disable his comlog when going to one of his stashes of gear/comlogs).

    If that Fiday gets in touch with a Govad, however, that hacker should be really nervous if he tried to touch the Fiday's comlog. His best actions would be to retreat in fear and try to erase all traces of his intrusion, leaving no backdoor, and if not sure it is totally impossible to notice someone has done so, beg for forgiveness very very convincingly and in private.
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Barid?
     
  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Nah, the Govads are the veterans of skullduggery and covert wars against other covert groups, fluff-wise. Barids are hackers, but don't have such... florid past ;)
     
  9. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Well, a PC isn't going to freak out too much at another PC having a selection of basic false identities loaded.

    About 1/10 of PCs start the game with a false ID of some kind just from the life path.

    It's the fancier stuff which you probably want to hide, and that's where having entirely separate Comlogs, Geists and personal patina clouds for every identity.
     
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  10. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Yup. But discovering it is a Fiday who you are messing with, it's the terrifying thing. Kinda like the "bullying a dragon" trope, but worse, since a Fiday can kill you, pin it onto someone you care for, and you will never see it coming.
    Not to mention he can ruin your life by adopting your looks and ID, and do some illegal stuff that will ruin you if he wants you to give him some space... And that's before considering the organization he is a part from.
     
  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    That's all context though. If the hacker in question grew up outsmarting DSAD (or Aleph) then he probably thinks he can take a Fiday he's got the drop on (quantronically). But yes, at that point you'd expect him to double down on the 'I do everything I can to hide the fact I was ever here and pull this apart in private over a long period of time'.

    Hassasins are only one of many 'bogeymen' in the sphere. And honestly, Dragnet and the Observance are the 'bogeymen' of Arachne's quantronic denizens (but in a different way).
     
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  12. gravitypool

    gravitypool Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    The problem that I´m having right now is that is night impossible to keep any kind of suspense or information secret in the campaign when a player literally hacks everything he finds just for the sake of it. He hacks peoples comlogs even before saying hello. In the last mission yesterday he decided to backdoor himself into the speeder bike of a fellow Guilang that was performing recon for them. When asked if he was looking for something in particular his answer was: Not really. Just in case.

    At this particular moment he is standing at hacking rolls at 18s with a guaranteed reroll and probably extra momentum so pretty much he is playing in god mode. Many times I find myself having to adjust the plot just to accomodate for his random intrusions and to be fair it's starting to annoy me and indirectly taking the fun away from other players.
     
  13. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    If they did that while I were GM, I wouldn’t let it impact as much as they think. If a hacker isn’t looking, but there just in case, plenty of things can be missed or go wrong. Hacking doesn’t mean they get anything.
     
  14. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Talk to him and explain how his actions are affecting the narrative.

    Or use in game options to punish his behaviour.

    This is my favourite:
    Give him the 'L33T H@X' trait: he's now the target of a quantronic criminal investigation, every time he makes an Infowar action the complication range is increased by 1 (ie complications normally happen in a 19 or 20).

    But these are some others:

    Increase the length of time that non-combat hacking takes. So building a back door is a a job of at least minutes, not seconds.

    How good is he at clearing his back trail? Because by now I'd expect that at least one of his intrusions would have been detected by an after the fact security sweep.

    Unless his Stealth (INT + Stealth) is just as good as his hacking he should have been detected by now. Particularly if he's pwning PC / NPC systems as he'll need to make multiple attacks and remain hidden throughout until he's achieved >4 breaches. Particularly if you make complications detect him.

    Every detection should have an effect even if it's just 'you intrusion was detected, I get 1 heat'.

    Have key contacts who detect that they've been hacked walk away from meetings.

    Have people start storing information in completely air gapped systems and turn up to meetings with brand new commlogs with no history on them.

    Have a newsflash/ad appear that 'due to the recent spate of cybercrime <increase in baseline security>' and give all NPCsHidden (3), Crybaby (3).

    Get the PC's to go to an Atek neighborhood where there's nothing to hack.

    Take away his HD for a session (security checkpoint, mugging etc) and force him to work around his losing his God mode. (Talk to him before you do this).

    Edited based on feedback from Admiral.
     
    #14 inane.imp, Apr 20, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  15. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    You could also just murder him and close all their bank accounts so they can't afford a new body. That's what my GM did when he decided he didn't like my brawn 14 characters' explosive spiked knuckleduster augments.

    I mean, i got a new body by selling off my powered combat armor, but that was still a solution that lowered our overall powerlevel by limiting our resources and assets.
     
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  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that his actual hacking ability is the problem. More that he hacks EVERYTHING. Which is why I like the 1 heat / hacking action: trivial hacking isn't worth it, but meaningful hacking still is.

    This is particularly true if he's completely pwning an NPCs network: he needs to generate enough successes to get access and then he needs to actually do something with that access, he also needs to check for hidden IC and deactivate it and finally he needs to erase the evidence that he was there. That's 5 Heat minimum.

    Oh, and then it turns out that the commlog was bought 30 minutes before the meeting and has no useful information on it.
     
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  17. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Yeah, I'd be introducing him fairly sharply to the joy of Black ICE combined with Hacking combat Geists in a high Security system.

    Then just have his faction handler drag him over the coals about blowing his cover after he's resurrected in his new Lhost.

    You ALWAYS have to confront disruptive play behaviors immediately and directly.

    One warning in private, one warning publicly (in front of the other players) and then kicked out is my personal policy.

    ...

    But @inane.imp is onto it, there's some solid advice there ('though I'd shy away from a systemwide alteration like heat for every hacking roll).
     
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  18. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Even if you toned it down to everytime he 'left evidence' of hacking you can still add a penalty for 'trivial' hacks.
     
  19. gravitypool

    gravitypool Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    So, more questions regarding trivial hacking in random situations.

    • Can Geists be hacked?
    • What info can be recovered from comlogs of downed soldiers? I understand they are like celphones of sorts so maybe they have camera but not necessarily active at the last moments of their life. So cube evac is necessary to extract info.
    • What happens when you have a weapon implanted in your Lhost and need to enter a secured area. Do sensor detect weapons concealed in the body? What can you do if you can`t just remove a body part?
    By the way, thanks all for the answers, is being very helpful.
     
  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    1. Yes, they have the same firewall as the Character they belong to and their own damage track: they're effectively a fully fledged (but not fleshed) character in their own right. This is why LAI make really good active security for protected networks.

    2. It depends. Anything up to and including their whole life with recordings of every interaction ever. Or at the other extreme they're a 'clean' commlog that only has the mission specific information on it and nothing more.

    3. Context is king. It basically depends on how much the people who control the checkpoint want you through. But would range from detention and charging on weapon offences to getting waived through with an apology. I think a good middle ground would he wanting to know what the implant was not a security detail as you move around the facility.
     
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