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Question about AI beacons

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by BrianJ, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. BrianJ

    BrianJ Member

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    Hi guys, new OCF player here trying to get up to speed with all the fancy options the EI offers from my previously played Haqqislamites.

    I've immediately run into a confusing issue with Imetrons in the first round of our local grow league. When they disperse and stay on the table, however, they cannot be placed in the location where they dispersed (on top of another trooper, edge of a building, non-level surface etc.). What happens?

    It seems pretty clear in the rules for AD that a trooper would then be placed on your DZ edge. Now with the FAQ clearly stating that beacons behave differently than troopers when they disperse into an enemy DZ (they stay there) I don't know how to interpret when Imetrons are considered 'troopers' vs when they are 'equipment'.

    Currently I've been just calling them 'destroyed' due to the wording that an AD trooper which disperses to an unplaceable area and thus must be placed on the edge of a DZ 'loses all equipment deployed with it'. I'd sure like to get a firmer ruling from some veteran servants of the EI.

    Hope you guys can share your experiences!
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I've always played it that it gets bounced back to your DZ. Honestly the FAQ ruling doesn't make much sense.
     
  3. BrianJ

    BrianJ Member

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    Both seem pretty reasonable to me, and it does seem like them being destroyed is pretty heavy handed. Have you encountered significant contention with your playing it as the DZ edge deployment in a tournament match or anything?
     
  4. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    Can you point me to which rule about losing equipment you're referring to? The closest I can find is this, under infiltration:

    Additionally, after failing an Infiltration Roll, the user loses the option to deploy in Camouflaged or TO Camouflaged state and the Hidden Deployment option granted by the Camouflage and Hiding (CH)Special Skill, as well as any Deployable Weapons and Equipment deployed alongside him, which are removed from the game table.

    That's specifically for things like minelayers and crazyokoalas; if you were trying to put deployables ontot he opponent's half of the table but fail the roll, they are removed.
     
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  5. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    Anyway, I'd probably go with either booting it back to the edge of the DZ or minorly fudge the distance if the model disperses to somewhere immediately adjacent to a legal landing zone.
     
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  6. BrianJ

    BrianJ Member

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    Yes, that was the rule I was was recalling and thinking it was for both impersonation and AD dispersion, my mistake. Thanks for your advice!
     
  7. Bohrdog

    Bohrdog Santathematics

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    Yeah they work just like AD troops in every way but they can land in the enemy DZ. That is the only difference.
     
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  8. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    There's also the fact that you lose them if they disperse off the table...
     
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  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yes, but we have to assume that every exception to the rules must be clearly stated out. Prior to that FAQ ruling they got bounced back to your DZ if they landed in the enemy DZ as well; I'm guessing that they don't really play by the rules at CB so they just were like "of course it works this way!" when they wrote that FAQ.
     
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  10. Bohrdog

    Bohrdog Santathematics

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    They are the rules how could they not play by them. The bounced back to the DZ is why they changed it because there should be some risk to getting a 4pt regular order.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It's in the FAQ, though, and isn't presented as a change, so it comes off as a high possibility that CB just doesn't play by what's written in the rulebook and issues FAQ rulings based off of "feel." Or they took the advice of WarCors who have opinions (and only 2/8 factions have AI beacons, so cries to nerf them will likely have 80% support).
     
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  12. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Dropping AD troopers or AI beacons on top of buildings with unlimited Height (like the central Control Room) makes them act as if they went out of the table, so AD troopers go to a border in your DZ while AI Beacons are destroyed.
     
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  13. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    75 % by that math ;)
     
  14. joedj

    joedj New Member

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    From wiki "Troopers using AD cannot deploy....in base to base contact with...piece of scenery." That dispersion roll is particularly brutal on Imetrons if a failure results in landing on a piece of scenery in our scenery dense battlefields. If "cannot", does that mean it is completely lost? Or does it mean it bounces back to deployment zone? If completely lost, it would be harsh, risking a Combat Group slot (Limited Insertion?) and an Order slot for an non-interactive model.

    Does AD:Combat Jump include all other lesser levels of AD? Like many/most abilities?
    If yes, Imetrons may also be deployed, safely, in one of the 8 segments on table edge as described by AD:Parachutist
     
  15. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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    Yes, however:

     
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  16. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    @joedj Furthermore, “cannot deploy in base to base contact” means “cannot claim cover” not “cannot be placed” per the most recent FAQ.
     
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  17. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    Do you mean this one?

    Troopers using Airborne Deployment cannot deploy Prone or in base to base contact with another troop, Marker, mission objective, or piece of scenery. Does this means that a troop can not deploy on a rooftop because the troop will be in contact with a piece of scenery?

    You can deploy on a rooftop. When the rule says that the troop cannot be deployed in contact with a piece of scenery, this means that the troop cannot gain cover from that piece of scenery. ​

    I'm pretty sure this is addressing the old "does a roof of a building count as scenery?" question. You should still place AD models at least 1 mm separated from any pieces of terrain when dropping them in (whether your intended location or as a result of scatter).
     
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  18. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Yeah, but I doubt the idea is to force you to discard the AD trooper or send him to your DZ if he happens to land precisely on the corner of a building (unable to stand there), else people will try to force to play in sparse tables to be able to play AD troops... or not play those at all.
     
  19. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    Yes. It also covers landing on a roof with other features or on top of crates etc, since people have argued in the past those are scenery items not the table surface. Base to base contact in this context has been clarified to mean laterally -to claim cover or to interact- not “placed on top of”.
     
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  20. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    Ok, sounds like we're on the same page. I had initially read your previous comment as being much more permissive about base contact with actual cover-granting terrain.