1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

PSR vs ML Unidron in Onyx

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Sabin76, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,708
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    I'm trying to wrap my head around the use cases between these two with the changes in N4. With the changes to the weapons and the lack of changes to the costs, I don't really see how we can justify the 4 point cost premium of the PSR anymore (it was already a dubious comparison, but man I loved me some teardrop impact templates with their extra reach!).

    Changes:
    • PSR impact template changed from teardrop to circular
    • "Plasma" is now a descriptor and not an actual ammo type
    Pros of PSR:
    • +1 B in active turn
    • +1 DAM in "hit mode"
    • Larger +3 range band
    • can be used against Immunity (total) (???)
    Pros of ML:
    • more wound potential per hit (3 vs 2)
    • 4 points cheaper (that's a whole order! = imetron)
    • carries LSG for CQ battle
    • AP on "hit mode"
    Taking each of the "advantages" of the PSR in turn... the +1 B in active is nice, but I'd posit you usually have other pieces for active turn hunting (spitfires/RFs, HMGs, HRMCs, etc) and B3 for an active turn piece would be the bare minimum I'd want. The +1 DAM in hit mode sounds nice, but that's only going to be better than the AP on the ML on targets of ARM 0 or 1. The larger range band is also nice, but as I said before, you usually have something else to take care of the range bands where the ML falls flat; that and the LSG means you have a very viable option close up. Lastly, I think the jury's still out on whether Immunity (total) works against plasma or not.

    All-in-all I do think there are slight advantages to the PSR in an Onyx link, but I do not see those advantages totaling to 4 points. Perhaps as a one off or in Vanilla, but not in a link.

    What are your thoughts on the PSR changes and whether they still justify (if they ever did) the 4 point cost premium?
     
    bladerunner_35 likes this.
  2. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    8,073
    With the total immunity note, do you mean the question of if ARM+BTS still forces two saves?

    I broadly agree with your assessment, but I think you’re undervaluing range bands. I always struggle with enemies sneaking into my 16-24” band when using a missile launcher, and the shotgun doesn’t help you any there.
     
    ijw likes this.
  3. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,708
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Yes.

    I may be... reactive turn range bands are hard for me to gauge the value of because it depends on how well you can cover your force where they are lacking. For our link example, carbines nearly 16" further up than the ML could be that cover.
     
    toadchild likes this.
  4. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    8,073
    I try not to spread my fireteam out that far, because if I do, I tend to get stuck when I try to move them. I like to have things close enough together that I can pick any model as the leader without having to drop members.
     
  5. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    17,066
    Personally I think the points are worth it for the extra Active Turn firepower of the PSR, it lets you use it as a Switch hitter even if you intended to use it mostly defensively.
     
    toadchild likes this.
  6. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    258
    And now you can be capped at 15 orders, you couldn't use that extra order (4pts imetron)
     
  7. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,708
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    I don't think I've ever made an Onyx list that was more than 15 orders, but your points stands...ish ;)
     
    HardDisk likes this.
  8. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2018
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    670
    I always take plasma sniper rifle over ML mostly because of better range bands. Tables are getting more dense as people are accumulating more terrain over years. I've been way too many times in situations where if I want place a ML ARO unit, it's basically gonna stare from my DZ to enemy's, and in this case he most likely has a sniper of his own, and find an angle to impose neg mod on me. Keep in mind that enemy will throw a neg-modless unit at your ARO only if his list doesn't have any. During his active turn he will do everything to skewer the odds into his favour. It was already quite frustrating when enemy managed to get into +0 range of my Father-Knight with ML, that has BS15, don't want to be even more frustrated when my unidron gets removed in two orders, while shooting back on low numbers.

    Also I would like to point out that since plasma forces ARM+BTS save, there's a chance that at least something will go through. Some units have higher armour than BTS.
     
  9. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,708
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    I completely forgot to address this, but my gut feeling is that it's a wash as there are a number of ARM 0/1 BTS 3+ units.
     
  10. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    162
    Why not just take both? *^_^*

    That being said, if you insist on choosing between them, I'd actually go with the plasma sniper rifle, for I really appreciate it's power in the active turn. It can be used in the active turn to outrange HMG-equipped TAGs and Total Reaction bots. It's an offensive weapon whose advantage is range, and if you can't get that range advantage, sure, an HMG would be better - but Onyx need to dominate the long-range game at all costs, and I find the plasma sniper rifle a great tool for doing that. By being in a five man-link and combining it with an EVO giving you marksmanship, you'll have absolutely ridiculous BS advantages, much more than an Overdrone would, giving you an utterly brutal long-range killing power.

    The math is simple (I assume both have cover here):
    An EVO-buffed fully linked Unidron gets to hit almost everything with three bursts that hit on 17 and does impact template ARM+BTS damage 15. Enemies that are outranged with an average BS of 12 will hit back at 9 at best, often 6. A TR Bot would only hit you at 5s if you catch it above 32". Even if the enemies have mimetism -3, you'd still have a large advantage with To-hit at 14.

    I'd take those odds any time. I don't need burst 4.

    However, if I also took the Overdron, due to its Albedo and staying power, I might opt for a missile launcher instead for the Unidrons, as the Overdron will take care of the active turn.
     
    bladerunner_35 and ijw like this.
  11. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,708
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    You guys are warming me back up to the ol' girl. Small point, though... the impact plasma hit is DAM 14.
     
  12. El tito Zylito

    El tito Zylito Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    36
    i rather pick the PSR, its a good aro unit in core, better rangebands and you can use it in active to outrange some aro pieces
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    I use the PSR on the attack as well; with Marksmanship it's actually pretty good at blowing things up. Burst has diminishing returns, so B3 is often enough to do the job. The fact that it can actually hurt things with Total Immunity (that ability is such a problem) is a plus.
     
  14. Time Bandit

    Time Bandit Vulnerability (Total)

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    879
    I like the ML for aro duty, if i have the swc. With wildcards we can reform a team multiple times. Unidrons can take a whack and still force scary exp face-to-face rolls. 20pts is a bargain. I'll often take PSR too if i can.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation