Normaly it should lays on Order Expenditure Sequence 6.1 Effects without questions: But text in the Protheion Example 1 get me confused: the specificness of wording in the example in both english and spanish brings doubt to intend how Protheion must work: at or after the Conclusion. What was the original intention, CB? If, indeed it's after Effects, what happend if the Protheion model comes to Unconscious same order with succsesful CC attack(and f.i deal 3 wounds). As Protheion does not containt the direct Unconscious cancelation, but must by Unconscious wording to do so, the model is still Unconscious, but with how many wounds, 0 or 3?
Power-Up is only placed if the Trooper ends up at a higher value than their original value after increasing it as a result of the target failing their ARM/BTS roll. Since damage and Protheion healing is simultaneous, I'd say there is a very strong argument that the Power-up Marker is never placed if both are received in the same order. Be mindful that there is a precedent with Doctor and Shock ammo in the same order ending up with the patient Dead due to Shock's straight-to-dead effect in this edition!
His argument is that they're not simultaneous. He's arguing that Wounds are applied during Resolution but Protheion's Power Up happens at the Conclusion. However, I think we can dismiss that argument on the basis of it being an example and not what the rules say (which is that the Effects of all skills are applied All at Once during Step 6.2).
Yeah, the 1-wound gain is pretty clearly an Effect of Protheion that would happen in the Effects phase. In the example, the power-up token isn't placed until the conclusion, but that actually makes sense: 1. Resolve all Effects simultaneously. Suppose the Caliban gains two wounds from having done two damage in CC, and loses one wound from getting shot at in the process, for a net gain of one wound. 2. Check whether "the user's Wounds Attribute is higher than its original value," and since it is, place a Power-Up token. If the token was placed while Effects were being resolved, then we'd have to first place a Power-Up-2 token, then replace it with a Power-Up token. Or, if we resolved them in the other order, we'd have to first place an Unconscious token, then replace it with a Power-Up token. In other words, resolve all wound gain and loss simultaneously during the Effects phase, then place tokens to reflect the new game state.
Well... to expand a bit on my answer. Whether you are unconscious or not, and whether you get a Power-Up or not, depend on the same thing; how many wounds you have. Given wound gains and wound losses have to happen at the same time (for all miniatures at the same time as well!) during an order, it is utterly impossible to get both UNC and Power-up in the same order (now that Maestro is, thankfully, dead and buried) As a minor point, the way skills are constructed in Infinity, we can not conclusively relegate everything in the Effects section of a skill to the Effects phase. There's so many skills that wouldn't work in that case like Super-Jump (movement does have a weird timing, though) or Sixth Sense (anti-Stealth has to work during all phases) or Tri-Core (several/all effects takes place completely outside order sequence)
Regardless of the technical ordering, there's no way an example is going to instruct you to swap out tokens multiple times during the resolution of the order.
Soooo, sorry to revive that old thread but I'm not sure I got it... Let's say a Caliban with Protheion deals a wound to a mini while being inflicted a wound by a third mini during the same order. Does the Caliban survive with his 1W? Additional question : does a critical hit on a mini with only 1W failing its two saving rolls results in two wounds gained by the Caliban (getting him his wound back + a power up 1 token)? Thanks!
Yes, the wound gained and the wound lost cancel out leaving the Caliban with no change in Wounds. Yes, if the target was able to lose 2W, for example a 1W trooper can lose 2W (one wound to go Unconscious, a second wound to go into the Dead state.) however if the target was already Unconscious there is only one wound to eat, regardless of how many saves it fails. Edit: Likewise, should the Caliban have any burst bonuses, it will gain wounds equal to the amount actually inflicted, not the amount of failed saves.
Simple/pragmatic answers, with no explicit rules references. Yes, tally up the net change of wounds (0 in this case) for each order. Yes, you could gain 2 W; one for reducing the target to unconscious, and another for taking it to dead. It doesn’t matter if they are from one crit or two regular hits, what matters is that the opponent failed two saves and lost two wounds.
