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Pitchers/Smoke and Saturation Zones

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Reece, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    Troops in a link get to toss out two smoke grenades or two repeaters with a pitcher.

    If they're not the at the same spot on the ground (pitchers can't be I think), the Saturation zone doesn't take effect right? You're splitting your burst between two targets.

    I think it's an easy one, but you never know.
     
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  2. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Hard to say honestly. The pitcher page says "A successful BS Roll allows players to place a Deployable Repeater Marker (REPEATER) at the point of impact." and it could be ruled that you're essentially just getting an extra dice on that one roll.
     
  3. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    No, when you throw smoke with a linked myrmidon, he rolls twice but places 2 smoke templates wherever he wants (unless in ARO, where the Burst cannot be split). Deployables go the same way... as long as you have enough remaining "charges" (like the Panzerfaust).

    There are no rules covering explicitly this interaction, but again if I take the smoke grenades as an option, nothing prevents me to make Move + Special Dodge (smoke) placing a single template at my feet and the other 20cm or so to my left, meaning I would make a normal roll (the one to the left) and one that could be a FtF or normal (the smoke at my feet, depending on the enemy having an ARO or not).
    So yeah, you could fire 2 Pitchers in two different positions, expending all the uses at once.

    Also, remember you can always choose to not apply the extra Burst granted by the Fireteam and fire a single pitcher.
     
  4. Elric of Grans

    Elric of Grans Well-Known Member

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    Per the FAQ, you cannot split the Burst of Smoke Grenades. They both have to land on the same spot. Pitchers would be the same, as the ruling was for the Targetless trait (using the full B on a Pitcher could be a waste given the Disposable trait).
     
  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Just for clarity, that FAQ was with regards to coordinated orders and AROs. Not active turn firing where burst can legally be split.
     
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  6. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    [Pedantry Mode] There is no such skill as Special Dodge, you'd be making a Move + BS Attack using smoke grenades (which have the special dodge trait) [/Pedantry Mode]
     
  7. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    As @RobertShepherd stated, this FAQ:

    Q: How does the Targetless trait interact with Coordinated Orders or with increased Burst in reaction, for example when throwing Smoke Grenades is it necessary to target the same point?
    A: Yes, in both cases.

    ...does not address the question at hand. You don't get to split burst when doing a CO or in ARO, which this FAQ clarified to include Targetless weapons as well.
     
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  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The FAQ states that in ARO Targetless attacks must 'target' the same point, ergo there is a 'target' for Targetless attacks.

    Which means when they're NOT part of a CO or ARO and you choose to fire them against two different targets then the FAQ about Sat Zones applies.

    So, yes:
    You can split burst from smoke and pitchers to target 2 different points in the active through a Sat Zone (assuming not as part of a co-ordinated order).

    No, you can't split burst from smoke and pitchers to target 2 different points in ARO or as part of a CO. Instead (with Pitchers) you should opt to only fire B1 (to avoid Expending both).
     
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  9. Kwisatz Haderach

    Kwisatz Haderach Zelenograd Shasvastii
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    Raising necrothread.
    How you put 2 pitchers or 2 mines in ARO in the same spot?
    Second question is regarding fireteam and targetless. In ARO, can I fire the BS attack at active trooper and shoot mine dispenser? I can choose any point for mine dispenser, or I have to target the active trooper?
     
  10. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    See the other thread where that is discussed.
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/link-team-burst-bonus-and-placement.26005/

    No. You can't shoot the Mine Dispenser at a Trooper: you can't place the mine where you shot it so it would become an idle.
     
  11. Kwisatz Haderach

    Kwisatz Haderach Zelenograd Shasvastii
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  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The Rudra can ARO with a Mine Dispenser and target a single point on the table in LOF, due to the Targetless trait. It doesn't matter if other troopers get an ARO as well, this is still valid for the Rudra.

    See the thread I linked for a discussion on whether that means it can place a mine or mines in ARO. I'm not being coy, I just hold an unorthodox opinion on the implications: you'll get a better understanding of both sides of the argument by reading that thread.
     
  13. Razi

    Razi Well-Known Member

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    How does a saturation zone affect Direct Template Weapons like B2 flamethrowers?
     
  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I would assume burst goes down by 1 (so 2 nanopulsers while in a 3+ fireteam goes from B3 to B2, etc...). Since you don't roll BS, the maluses to roll won't apply.
     
  15. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Just remember that the burst reduction happens after you split burst between targets. So if it's the active turn and you've got multiple targets under the template that you can see, you're going to want to target different troopers with each template.

    It's going to be the same for direct templates or impact templates that way. Two templates fired at different targets that overlap are two separate B1 templates, so they don't get reduced.
     
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  16. Razi

    Razi Well-Known Member

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    Impact templates require you to select a target, Direct Templates do not. It's hard to describe but there are plenty of situations where i can place the flamethrower template that raises questions to me.

    Can I split my burst to hit target A&C plus A&B for example?
     
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Direct Template Weapons absolutely requires a target. It's still a BS Attack and nowhere does it say it is targetless or any such.
    The requirement is that the primary target is affected by the attack. Outside of ARO or Coordinated Orders, you may split burst as you like (such as to avoid Saturation Zones)
     
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  18. Razi

    Razi Well-Known Member

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    So I can split burst to have primary target A and primary target B, resulting in hitting A&B + A&B?
     
    #18 Razi, Mar 13, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yes. If you target it like that if A and B are in a saturation zone (such as during Rescue ITS mission), you will effectively avoid the -1B penalty. If you target only A (such as you are forced to in ARO) then you'd be hit by Saturation and only shoot once.

    Or you can take your linked flamer and go A with one burst and B+C with other, of course.
     
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  20. Razi

    Razi Well-Known Member

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    Also, I don't see where Direct templates are required to select a target. Direct templates don't have any requirements listed at all. Why can't I just shoot only trooper A twice?

    Impact Template Weapons
    These weapons place a Template at the point of impact.

    Requirements
    • The user of one of these weapons must declare a main valid target, and that target is used as a reference to place the Template.
    Direct Template Weapons
    As their name implies, these weapons place a Template where their user stands.

    Effects
    • Place the Template down when you declare the Attack to determine what the Attack affects, as that might influence the possible second Short Skill and AROs.
     
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