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Pitchers as technical weapons

Discussion in 'Rules suggestions' started by Mahtamori, Apr 4, 2022.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Simple suggestion: Pitchers to become technical weapons. (And the burst bonus on KISS removed)

    This serves two purposes.
    1. Most troopers with Pitcher access has higher WIP, I'd say on average 2 points higher, than they have BS. By improving the attribute outside of fireteam members it allows the solo units to more reliably use these as tactical tools. Often when I see units like Cyberghost or (solo) Danavas use these it's a bit of a coin flip if it is at all useful or a complete waste of time.
    2. This almost completely removes the (extra) benefits of using these in a Fireteam which is the primary offender in spreading non-interactive gameplay that has been affecting many metas negatively.

    Rangebands probably could use reduction to Pistol-like bands, but one step at a time.
     
  2. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
    Warcor

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    we've been talking about this change quite a lot in our community, we'd also prefer if pitcher was a technical weapon. being a technical weapon it also means it won't receive burst bonus from a fireteam, which is main offender here in my opinion, as x-visor B2 pitchers from haris/core are really obnoxious.
     
  3. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Awesome suggestion, I totally agree with it.
     
  4. Child9

    Child9 Well-Known Member

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    It would make sense anyway from a fluff point of view. Pitcher is definitely a technical weapon.

    EDIT : even if it's not the topic, it would make sense to treat Medkits and Gizmokits the same way, from this point of view.
     
  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The burst bonus is the only reason people are using Medikits and Gizmos.
     
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  6. Child9

    Child9 Well-Known Member

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    "from a fluff point of view".
    I didn't discuss gameplay here.

    P.S : I'm using Medikits/Gizmokits outside of fireteams, as well as other players I know. I guess we're just not people.
     
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  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I was being polite but if you would prefer that I be more specific and refer to "people" as "competent players" instead I can do that for you though?

    Because it's true that's what I actually meant.
     
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  8. Child9

    Child9 Well-Known Member

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    No, you were not trying to be polite. It's just the classic weird egotic behaviour of some people believing THEIR way of playing and THEIR meta are the only ones. Get off your high horse, there is more than you. I could even point out you're actually just a tiny minority, so stop speaking about yourself using "people" :)
    Maybe try "The godly elite that I represent shall not use medikits with B1 like a vulgar peasant"? If it doesn't feel "too much"... :sweat_smile:
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Please don't use this as a venue for fighting each other.

    For what it is worth, there's a time and place for Medikits outside of where they get burst bonuses, but it is also not something reliable enough that you plan on doing or want to spend more than an "order of opportunity" on so to speak.
     
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  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think more the point is all those paramedics that have been actually seeing play because of N4 will poof back into the ether and go back to being the cheaper FOs they were before.
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I used to consider Paramedics the most overpriced ability. That's for a different thread, however, and preferably one that also suggests Medikits/Gismos have B2 by default ;)
     
  12. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    That actually sounds like a pretty good QoL change.
     
  13. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Change rangeband to Granade Launchers and this would complete the pitcher nerv.

    Sry but: I would also like the idea Medi/Gizmo as technical weapons. This will make doctors "useful" again and points out the few profiles with B+1 on the kits.
     
    #13 archon, Apr 4, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
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  14. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I like it, its a simple solution that fixes a big chunk of the problem.

    I've seen other changes to pitchers suggested online by better players than myself and if you don't mind I'll use this as a kitchen sink "changes to repeaters" post. If you do mind I'll repost as a separate thread.
    • A) Repeaters generate an ARO when used
      Models could shoot or dodge away from a repeater. This limits the ability to just place them anywhere you like.
    • B) Pitchers (and perhaps other deployables) are placed on declaration, destroyed on failure, and trigger AROS
      Models could shoot or dodge away from a potentially placed repeater. More complex rule with possible side effects, like triggering mines
    • C) Return U-Turn to the game, or add some sort of "Point Defense Remote" or something similar
      Add or return capabilities that actively oppose missile launches
    • D) Pitcher rangebands become +6 to 8", -6" to 16", - beyond 16"
      Limit the ability to project these far up the table, make models move forwards and expose themselves to deploy them
    • E) Remove the Heckler Fastpanda from the game, or limit it to Tunguska
      This model is order intensive but almost guarenteed to deploy a repeater where desired, with extremely limited counterplay.
    Only the last one came from me personally (though was pretty popular online), but I can't remember who exactly to credit the others to.
     
  15. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

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    Being decent toward other forum members, polite even, is a desired trait in this forum.
     
  16. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    This, and limit the range of pitcher like :
    0-20 cm +3
    21-40 cm -3
    No shot beyond 40cm

    Pitcher are fine if you need to dedicate some orders to place them. Not so much if you can shoot it though the whole table.

    It would also contribute to solve the Alpha Strike and Guided Missile Launcher meta issue some players have.
     
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