Dear CB, dear Community, not sure if i hit a nerve with this thread but my local meta is totally happy with the n5 changes, even SJ, except for 2 things, which are disturbing: 1.) Speedball. It is a bit too strong to support round 1 alpha strikes and makes certain pieces mostly unstopable. Suggestion: Can be used from Round 2 onwards. 2.) Bikes. I dont know the intention behind the changes of no longer allowing to mount/dismount biker profiles and in most cases they have decent other options to attack enemies, but there are cases where i.e. your yojimbo biker or penthesilea want to use their ccw, but they can't under any circumstances because the silhouette of the bike doesn't fit onto the stairs of i.e. the basic cb terrain. The no longer available ability to dismount would have given those units the freedom to get there. This is also often relevant for objectives, when they are on roofs or containers i.e. So please CB, give bikers the ability/profiles back to mount/dismount. It was a good and needed interaction.
i do absolutely agree to 1. Do not have enough experience to have an opinion about 2. - but sounds convicing.
I never understood why dismount/mount was removed. It was not a powerful or even complicated rule. It seemed simple enough. I suggest keep it for both bikes, aerial vehicles, and TAGs.
Honestly, I haven't had chance to play yet, but when I read Speedball I despaired, E/M has been my way to stop TAG alpha strikes etc, it works not anymore due to TAGs shrugging off the effects. Speedball is a no brainer use for command token, it's very very strong. Before someone says, "you lad, you just need to play before you comment!", well, in this case it's quite obvious how strong this thing is, but I want to note that I'm not putting CB down for this of anything, I have pretty long history of competitive gaming (fighting games etc.) and ALWAYS something has been broken from launch without exception OR the game has been really bland and lame, when you have many things to take into account something always slips through. In theory I think Speedball is a cool idea and can be made to work, but as it is now, it's a single 1 think that makes me think I'm not in a hurry to get games in until it's somehow toned down, small tuning will fix it and CB has been proven pretty good at solving problems when they put their mind into it, so please, this 1 thing if possible, tune it preferably quickly, if the solution doesn't work, it's all right, you can always get back to it later. Otherwise I'm really happy when reading N5 changes and I think N5 is what N4 should have been. If I had known what CB had in the drawing table at come-up concerning N5 I would not have raised any critique (aside Speedball being too strong).
The worst thing about speedball is it was meant to give more options for command tokens but so clearly does the opposite. It's objectively wrong to not buy your speedball at the start, so most games you start with only 2 command tokens now.
I would really like if speedball could only be deployed on turn 2 and 3. It would reinforce their use as a recovery mechanism, instead of an alpha strike booster. It would also make the speedball a real choice - if it drops on turn 2, the intended target must be near your own deployment zone edge, or you must have another plan for delivery in case the drop misses.
I see it the same way with speedball... at the moment they are too strong for an Alpha Strike. I think the idea that they will come later in the Game is great (for me personally, turn 3 would be a good choice)
Speedball is just bad. It's a mechanic that clearly wasn't thought out or tested. As is you will always use it, and depending on your Alpha being a TAG or dude you will choose from 1 of 2 options every time. Mount and Dismount were easy and should come back, 100%. There's no good reason to remove it.
I don't like speedball at all. Too powerful, too reliable, no-brainer. It's just not really 'adding' anything tactical or fun to the game as it's not really a choice to use it or not. I expected it would be combat jump rules with potential for scattering, and the items would be things like 1-use MSV, or 1-use medikit, something that gives you a chance to get you out of a jam, but still with some risk. Then it would be an actual choice to spend the command token on it or not. As for bikes, I never noticed that dismount had gone in N5 and I think our group would probably carry on playing as if it exists.
I'm not sure this is the right part of the forums for this, but +1 for delaying the first Speedball drop (probably for just the first player turn, so the player going second can use it right away...they may need it for recovery!) I also miss dismounting bikes and, to some degree, TAGs. I think I get why those changes were made and they do streamline the game a fair bit, but I don't think the gain in streamlining was worth losing them entirely.
Ok, first I wasn't sure if this was a sincere or joke post because we got two unrelated Rules with very different levels of impact on the game mixed together. But regarding the Speedball issue I'm d'accord with @chroma.mk there has to be some rework carried out. IMO see some good possibilities for changes in: Availability: Speedballs can only be put on the Table after the first Player's first turn (and until before the second Player's last turn) Deployment: individual SBs can be deployed independent from each others, not both at the same time. A failed CJ roll will result in either a lost speed ball or it has to be placed as close as possible to one of the Player's Deployment Zone corners alongside the player facing edge. Picking up the Speedballs: instead of auto pick up a Basic Short Skill is spent External use of Vitapack/AutoRepairS: if auto-administered to another trooper the recieving trooper performs e.g. a PH=14 +1SD roll. If that roll fails nothing happens. I terms of the bikes... the fact that Line Kazaks, Ghulams and all the Nomad Line Infantries/Garrison Troops lost their Sniper profiles whilst CB shows an interesting way (see Konduktors SMR Profile) how they could've been kept in the game as an option irks me more.
I like both of these. Speedball's current implementation doesn't seem to match what CB said was the intended objective and bikes losing dismount reduced their flexibility.
I agree on both suggestions. Speedball, as it is right now, is just an incent to stack bonuses on an already tough piece of your army. Making an important piece of your army invunerabl to states turn 1 and just brute force your way into the ennemy army is not fun or tactical ... The way Carlos described it as a way to get out of a bad situation where you are stick to your DZ I was expecting more like, get an MSV, an HMG or some 0V smokes or thunderbolt on something in your DZ on turn 2 or 3 Dismounting bikes never was a rule issue in my experience ... I don't get why it was removed. Maybe because of the possibility to dismount to reduce the distance during impetuous order ? I don't get it ...
Something has got to be done. I got my ass handed to me AGAIN last night by Sheskin getting the Vita pack and then killing half my force turn one. If it wasn't her then it could have been Norkias that he also had! I'd like to also suggest that the Vita pack and Autorepairs one can only be used by figures with 1 Vit or S.
1. I disagree. If anything, defending against alpha strike is too easy very with duolinked 19-20p Kaitoks/Cenobities, hacking networks and deployable turrets. 2. I disagree. Having played antipode assault packs since N3 it’s about time for the other players to enjoy too big base sizes.
The speedball needs two different reworks. First, it was going to give weapons/gear to deal with problematic enemy pieces, which was quite a good way to reduce the absurd amount (as is, i'ts impossible to have a counter for all the possible ones in a single list, and do anything worthwile) of threat vectors the gear, weapons and rules have grown to. Second, as mentioned, it's too good of a get out of jail card for big hitters that can go nova on turn one, now that only Neurokinetics and Total Reaction can score more than one hit in Reactive and Immunity (ARM) has been more liberally given. Nourkias & co are quite the extreme examples, but other Alpha Strike rambos can get a lot of mileage from an extra wound or an anti-ISOlated state. As for the bikes, TAGs, etc..., having the possibility of dismounting is nice and fun, but I don't really believe it should change their use much now that even manned TAGs get an ancillary bot (so the only difference would be the Remote Presence rule giving the second KO state and Engineer's rerrol). Unless the table is really "special", that is. Also, a lof of bike models don't have an "on foot" version, so I think CB has decided to scrap the idea, not release dismounted pilots, and go for other stuff.
There is a faction out there that can minelayer 5 deployable turrets at the start of the game. It's pretty difficult to punch through that. You can always play that faction if you feel that enemy alpha strike is too powerful. Additionally engineers with armed turrets can deploy the turret as an ARO in their ZoC. This means that even the bestest alpha striker in the game has to use at least 2 orders to clear such a roadblock, probably even more if the turret gets deployed to a spot where it has favorable band and cover, but the rambo piece doesn't. Many of these engineers troopers cost like 15p. There is very little reason not to take max AVA of them in every mission.
