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Patroclus and Holomask/Holoprojector in Steel Phalanx

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by dXQuarionXb, May 31, 2021.

  1. dXQuarionXb

    dXQuarionXb New Member

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    I'm honestly at a loss here. What is Patroclus' purpose in steel phalanx? The holomask/holoprojector combo is nice, but since variation in Steel Phalanx is almost non-existent, it only has like maybe one use - to partner up with Achilles v2 and Holomask as as the same model to confuse the opponent in deployment. And even then, literally doing anything that requires a roll breaks both Holomask and Holoprojector, causing the facade to be broken instantly, so using him to ARO at all breaks your disguise. Even more so since the Holoechoes can't ARO.

    I've thought about disguising Patroclus as a team of Myrmidons, but then you can't even pass off as a fireteam since Achilles v2 doesn't count as a myrmidon and isn't a wildcard, so the jig is up the moment you do anything with Patroclus, or even if you do anything with Achilles, since Duos don't give any additional benefit besides order efficiency.

    It's only really threatening if your opponent doesn't know anything about the game. Maybe it's just me but I legitimately can't find a conceptual situation where Patroclus is even remotely useful.
     
    bkromray likes this.
  2. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    As with nearly every holomask trooper, judge the profile without the holomask. Then everything else is bonus.

    Outside of when you're going second, to prevent a LT assassination (which Patroclus is very good at since he can make you display 4 different Achilles), holomask is never going to meaningfully trick anyone (and that's not just a Patroclus skill, but the skill as a whole)

    Lean on the more reliable aspect of holoprojector. (Clearing mines / deployable, going into suppresive fire out of LoF and re-masking in LoF, surprise attack, decoy LT when going second)
     
    yoink101 likes this.
  3. bkromray

    bkromray Active Member

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    Keeps frenzy off V2 blondie, and is a dmg 16 HMG with smoke and can push buttons. Having said that, his is still kinda bad. The change to HI made him venerable to hacking, he isn't a great gun fighter, he isn't a great button pusher, he has no vis mods, and he is really just lackluster. I think the idea was to make him interesting for vanilla and just put him with the rest of the sectoral at the back of the cabinet.
     
    #3 bkromray, May 31, 2021
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Ok, first of all: fluff.

    In the Illiad, Patroclus disguised himself as Achilles since Blondie did not want to go into battle, and got killed. In Infinity, both Achilles, Patroclus and Penthesilea are intended Recreations (that is, Aleph created them to be like the historical perception of the names, instead of creating aspects that earn a name during their service/training like Alke or Teucer), each with a defined role: Achilles to "control" the most advanced Lhost ever designed (a prototype resulted in Ajax, since the Aspect was unable to control all aspects of the body and be an effective leader), Patroclus to offer some protection (which implemented with the Holomask + Holoprojector skills) and Penthesilea to grab Achilles for a retreat when he would overextend himself (thus her I-khol, now turned into a flat minus to CC against her. The Illiad's Hyppolita was cursed by Afrodite to be irresistible to men... and she kept being so after dying on the battlefield. Yeah, the Illiad and the Odyssey are a Trauma Conga Line... like most lore involving the Greek Pantheon); ideally, Penny would wink at Achilles, who would become mostly stupid, ride with her in the bike, and let her take him from battle.

    Now, crunch:
    • You were never able to keep the ruse for long when using Holoprojector, since when it became your turn, you had to place the Holoecho markers on the models. Which needed to be identical, and if Team Leader all three needed the marker, making it useless for protecting a true Achilles with three imposters. Patroclus being 50ish points himself also made him a poor bodyguard, since you were investing 50 pts to attempt to protect nearly 70... A 40-ish Myrmidon Officer Chain of Command was a better investment.
    • You were always able to disguise Pat as something else, but his high cost and the "must" in the number of echoes meant there were little choices to use if you wanted to hide the fact you had a Hidden Deployment/AD troop or two. Vanilla was easier since he could be disguised as three Devas (28+ pts).
    • Disguising Pat as something else, using just the Holomask until the gig is up, lets you apply Sun Tzu's "Look strong where you are weak, Look weak where you are strong" by disguising a strong troop as a weaker one like a Dakini, while the other player thinks you have a Hidden Deployment or DA troop.
    • Holoechos are great to "kick the bushes": detonate perimeter weapons, mines, force some enemy Hidden Deployment troops...
    • Holoecho Suppresive Fire Teleport: by abusing the regeneration of the state at the states phase, you could in N3 move pat up to twice is base (since the echos need to be Silhouette to silhouette), so a Sup Fire Patroclus could "teleport" from Total Cover to Partial Cover if desired. Dunno if it is legal in N4, however (but consider the Sepulcher Knight in MO can do that with a S5 base...).
    In the end, it's mostly a tool to hide Patroclus and to toy with your opponent points-counting skill (if he has any).

    Well, the expensive version is not impetuous anymore... but I see little use for that since the Mimetism-3 carries the AP Spitfire :(
    Wildcards mean you can have two duos, with one True Achilles and one False Achilles and a wildcard... well, nobody will expect True!Achilles paired with Thrasimedes, but...
    On a serius note, it would be Hyppolita + Achilles, and then Acmon with either Achilles or Patroclus (to remove IMM/ISO)
     
    Stiopa likes this.
  5. bkromray

    bkromray Active Member

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    I agree, Acmon does what Pat would do for a huge discount and doesn't miss out too on much of his kit. He is just kinda in a dumb place, not good enough in the sectoral to justify his points and having other units that fill his unit role well enough. He needs some work, badly. I would first start with giving him his mimitism back and make him a two wound MI so he isn't hackable.
     
    DukeofEarl and Methuselah like this.
  6. Smooth Criminal

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    Holoprojector is like a bad camouflage, it gives your opponent a chance to guess correct model instead of being straight up invulnerable against attacks. Pat is like a bad Hac Tao/Swiss. Still, phalanx has no other camouflage.
     
  7. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Scylla disagrees...

    EDIT: Damn, I keep forgetting she got cybermask removed :/ (not that I used her for much aside from flamethrower delivery and objective camping in N3... but at least she's an excellent supporting hacker for Vanilla).
     
    #7 xagroth, Jun 3, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2021
  8. bkromray

    bkromray Active Member

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    She does not get marker state any more unfortunately.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  9. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

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    I'm going to flat out disagree with alot of the complaining in this thread.

    1. Holo mask is useful, just less so when used with the Holo projector at the same time in steel.

    Hiding him as something like an Agema/Teucer can go a long way towards making your opponent mis deploy their forces, a HI with an HMG/multi and smoke grenades has a very different threat profile than a 1 wound MSV MSR. If you really need the markers you can spend an order when you need to first turn, or just let him remask for free later.

    2. I am not so sure I would call Holo state flat out worse camo. Yeah, they don't need to discover, but at the same time if they choose to shoot they have a 66% chance of choosing the wrong model. Getting normal rolls is no joke. You can use him aggressively in ways you might not be able to use other markers so long as you limit the number/type of aros.
     
    Daniel Darko, yoink101 and DukeofEarl like this.
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