While reading this question, please keep in mind I am a new player still learning the game. I read on the forums once that everything on the table top is considered open information. Is that a true statement? If so where does it say that in the rules. The only thing I found in the rule book was what is private information. Are Lines of Fire open information? if so, when can I check them? and then.... Is Zone of Control of a model open information? if so, when can I measure ZoC?
can be found on: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Open_and_Private_Information ZoC is private information as there is no pre-measuring. ZoC is measured after orders are declared but before dice are rolled.
And the reference for measuring ZoC is the first FAQ on the ZoC page: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Zone_of_Control#FAQ
This is a quite complicated question. Rules as Written : Line of Fire are public information and you can check them all the time It became complicated when you go to which LoF you can check and with which tool. Play by intent (PBI) player will tell you that you can check any LoF, including the one where you have no mini yet (example : I want to put my Achilles here, i put a S2 silhouette here , now does your trooper have LoF on the silhouette ?). Play by intent player will also use all tools (including laser) to determine and check "potential" LoF. The idea is to fully check LoF before acting so there is no debate once the mini are moved. Non-PBI player will tell you that you can check LoF but only for mini as they are on the table. So in the previous example, you will have to declare move and move your Achilles before checking LoF. I'm myself playing PBI, as do my meta, so I'm not impartial here. The debate between play by intent and not play by intent has not been settled by CB (see the 20+ pages debate) so it's kind of a grey area.
Can you show me in the rules where is says LoF is open information? If it is open information per RAW how is it that one person playing non_PBI can only check if a order is spent and a move is declaired? That is confusing.
The only thing in the rules is what @MikeTheScrivener posted above. Which is why there is space for interpretations.
It's here: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Open_and_Private_Information PBI, PBM or which tools are ok to check LoF is more about how you and the other player agree to play. Just be clear about how you want to play before the game and apply those rules consistently to both of you.
Thanks for the link. As I mentioned I have read over that. I have read over that many times now. No where does it say that LOF is open information. It explicitly says what is private in the bullet points. It also has a line about what is open from the army list. "Consider any piece of information on a player's Army List that is not explicitly Private as Open and knowable to all." I still have not found any rule stating that LOF or LOS is open information and can be checked at anytime. Do you know where it says that? I'm sure I have just overlooked it somewhere in the 1000 pages of rules. hahaha.
Information is assumed to be public info unless it is explicitly private (see http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Open_and_Private_Information). Using Private Information with regards to information about the table is not correct. Table distances are not private information, neither is Zone of Control. These may have specific timings when they can be checked, but that does not make them "Private Information" as defined by the rules. Private information specifically relates to player's list, deployments, loadouts, etc, not aspects of the table. The only mention of line of fire in the http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Open_and_Private_Information wiki entry is to specifically call out that asking about possible lines of fire before declaring an order is acceptable.
And just because links to the rules are great in this form. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Line_of_Fire_(LoF)
http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Open_and_Private_Information literally in the big blue box that has already been screencapped in this thread and is in this rule entry. You can explicitly check LoF before an order per the rule, but also LoF is "open information" per the rule, so I would argue you can check it any time (it's not like you can't look at a courtesy list during an order). I dislike CB's use of "open information" for LoF though, since other elements of the table do not fall into the open/private info model.
I don't really like how they use those blue boxes to put rules in that are not in the bullet points or description of the rules. Usually those are tips and tricks. Thanks for the help. I got there. :)
Oh boy you are in for a surprise in Infinity. Alot of rules are "hidden" in weird places. Sometimes the only place where something is explained are examples. (e.g. symbiont armor and fire) Don't feel bad for coming to the forums for help it is sometimes really hard to find a specific rules text.
There's an example, sure, but the actual rule is right there in the Active Symbiont Armor state that's granted by Symbiont Armor.
The problem is that it's the equipment that is fire sensitive, not the state. Information about equipment should be grouped with the equipment, not with a different second rule about something the equipment does.
The models are present on the table and basic LoF checking requires no tools. It’s impossible to forbid checking LoF the way premeasuring is forbidden.
For clarity to my previous post: You can perform a basic visual check of any model (or point) to any other model (or point) at any time, because all you’re doing is looking at the table. Looking has to be allowed. Use of tools (silhouettes, lasers, etc) is going to be dependent on local etiquette. Once orders are declared, LoF checking happens immediately. Unlike ZoC, you are entitled to know with certainty if you received an LoF ARO or not. ZoC sometimes requires that you guess, and it’s possible to forfeit your ARO through bad guessing. Some people like to use silhouettes to “premeasure” (scare quotes intentional) if a model would be visible at a certain position. This might be the active player trying to judge a move order or a reactive player setting up an ARO. This is a contentious point that can lead to very bitter arguments. In this thread I am intentionally declining to take a position on whether I think this is allowed or not.
