1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Onyx sectorial after 2 years... need advices

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Menelao, May 22, 2021.

  1. Menelao

    Menelao New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2021
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hello, I`m coming back to Onyx sectorial after a couple of years I didn`t play it anymore. I just didn`t think anymore about the newest rules, the eventually modified profiles, and whatever else...

    I would really appreciate, if someone would give me some hints about them:

    - How to plan a battle group (or two)
    - Strengths and weaknesses
    - General advices

    Thank you very much in advance
     
  2. Sergei Simonov

    Sergei Simonov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    650
    Strengths are few, but very strong, often deceptively so. This is a no tricks sectorial.

    +Lethal ammo types: you don't have amazing gunfighters without fireteam and gadget buffs, but what you hit stays down. This faction shits out plasma and K1, so no armor is safe. And there are ways to make sure you hit...

    +Very good hacking: you have very good repeater networks, and a lot of good hacking profiles. N4 allowing them to spotlight ARO means the previous strength comes into play. Also you are second only to Nomads for guided missile tricks.

    TAGs: You get the Sphinx, arguably the best TAG in the game and unmatched for taking territory. If not the best it's top 3, easy. After that you have Xeodrons, which are seriously deadly and resilient for their cost, and can make one of the harder Haris teams in the game.

    Noctifers: I don't need to explain. This is how you contest the midfield.

    Ok, the minuses are a little more plentiful, and require serious planning around, this is very much an early N3 faction and it shows...

    -no cheap midfield camo, infiltrators or warbands. Your cheapest infiltrator is 34 point TO unit or an AVA 1 impersonator with bad stats. If you are starting second, you need a good breakout unit to get anything done, and you don't really have many options...

    -The worst LT selection in the game, bar none. They are obvious, fragile expensive, defenseless or some unholy combo of all the above. You will regularly lose games to assassination runs, and coping with those are a big part of learning Onyx.

    Expensive toys: it's CA, if you want to hit 15 orders you are spamming Imetrons.

    No serious gunfighters: you top off at BS 13 with no visual mods with two exceptions. One is 40 points and only works at point blank range, the other is 95 points.

    Your mimetism fireteam is not worth it's points, so accept you are taking a haris or unidrons. Unidrons need a full fireteam to work at all, so bring extras, and an E drone, so every list starts down by .5 swc and 18 points.

    If you want to smash face with scary guns in the active, or fireteams of TAGs, you run Onyx. Anything else you have better options.
     
    Mogra likes this.
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    Did you just call a sectorial with access to Suryat and Noctifer LT the "worst LT selection in game bar none"?
    The game has changed since N3, it is no longer as valid to spam LT decoys and with how hacking and the number of "Van Zants" there are, the qualities that define a "good" LT has shifted to the point where most sectorials are quite close to Corregidor (the real bottom feeder of LT choices, but only because Tunguska has a Cybermask LT Edit: we're just gonna pretend that Ikari doesn't exist) or they rely on more or less bad chain of command units.
    Being able to choose an LT that's decent at handling assassination runs or one that can simply opt out is a great advantage that many factions don't have.

    Also, Greif is a really good and versatile unit. Just don't try to use it as a Speculo.
     
    #3 Mahtamori, May 22, 2021
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
    Zewrath, DaRedOne, xagroth and 3 others like this.
  4. Sergei Simonov

    Sergei Simonov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    650
    Having to sink 25 points and 1 SWC into a tax that says 'you must have this unit or lose the game on the rolloff' isn't a faction strength, it's an indictment of how bad other LT options are. The Suryat can at least advance your game plan, but again, for 45 points and 1/4 of your SWC in a faction that already has a tax on both in the form of E Drones and plasma snipers. Taking the 'don't lose instantly' LTs in the faction deprive you of needed points and SWC to use the faction's actual draw units, the TAGs and plasma spam. This is a weakness, not a strength.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  5. SpectralOwl

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,891
    Likes Received:
    3,130
    Everyone forgets about poor, poor Ikari Co. They get bog-standard Keisotsu and Brawlers only. Noctifers are a pretty solid choice for Decapitation or Firefight at least, and Nexus Operatives have a few Specialist LT. profiles that offer some scoring potential for the above-average cost.
    Depressingly, it's middle of the road these days- there aren't all that many factions that can build in CoC or a safe LT without compromising against their own factional strengths, and several that can't take one at all. It's the one weakness Nomads as a whole still actually suffers from, and PanO really feels the lack of Marker State LTs in scenarios where LT kills score since their usual defense is CoC or shell games.
     
    Mahtamori likes this.
  6. Time Bandit

    Time Bandit Vulnerability (Total)

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    879
    I agree with a lot of what's already been said but I'll say some more!

    - Noctifer LT is solid, if you can afford the swc tax (and plenty of OCF lists can) but otherwise your LT is gonna be pretty easy to spot and run at.

    - Rodoks are kinda trash now, having gone up in points, had superjump nerfed, lost LTs and nearly all their mine profiles.

    - With one exception, MSV is locked behind a poor profile (maakrep) or expensive 1w ones (ko dali), and there's no smoke, so you're often likely to run without one. Greif has one, and is only 0.5 swc and 20pts, it's a great profile, not to be underestimated.

    + As far as general strengths go, I think more has to be made of the unidrons. Now they can go prone they are a star defensive fireteam, and the duality of dropping unconscious or tanking two wounds to the face and staying up is a really strong reactive power. 6 members in the team, with one ML for aro roadblocking, is a great option.

    + Nourkias is the new star of the faction, and in my opinion he's better suited to Onyx than vanilla, thanks to that unidron fireteam, which generates a lot of orders, doesn't need many, and is a nice anvil to his hammer. The KHD profile is the standout due to cybermask (to advance him) and allowing him to press buttons.

    + Noctifer ML is still the best aro piece in the game.

    ? Don't really feel qualified to comment on the Sphinx, I haven't run it enough. It feels like a skew unit that will thrive against some lists and suffer against others, which is a big deal when it costs 93pts.
     
    Mahtamori likes this.
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    Yeah, sure, but this is average across the 42 factions, which doesn't make it a strength, but also not a weakness. Hell... the fact that Onyx has access to a Camo LT might technically mean it's above average given how the mechanics work in this edition. You can probably even make any of the LTs work if you use the Greif creatively.
     
    Morray likes this.
  8. Morray

    Morray Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    135
    A lot of negativity on the forum for Onyx, but that's just from dudes list building. I've had a lot of games with them in N4 and I can tell you they only got stronger (Which is scary as)

    Onyx have kept the same play style they were created with in N3

    chunky robots that can dish damage and take damage, whilst gaining buffs.

    We also over time have gained a bunch of characters that add a little ectra spice to the style we play

    Rodoks went up a sniff, but gained a huge 4-4. They're a VERY strong link.

    If you're not comfortable placing an LT with a nano screen and spitfire in a well defended area, you can always hide your LT and trick your opponent into killing a Nexus that's actually a trap, wuwahahaha.

    We gained Nourkias, one of the best profiles in the game.

    Imetrons are better.

    Our (Actual) Weaknesses.

    Lack of linked MSV, which I've seen a lot of people on here moan about. It doesn't fit, get over it.

    If your LT does drop and you haven't gone Rodoks it can hit hard

    Mid field is sparse, but Nourkias EATS midfield, literally.

    DocWorm has a big target on his back


    Over all an awesome faction
     
  9. Time Bandit

    Time Bandit Vulnerability (Total)

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    879
    I don't get the Rodok love (except for the amazing models), Morray! Their biggest asset for me is veteran but that's just not enough. No tinbot, no LT option, mines only on one profile, super jump got nerfed to a maximum clearance of 2", and they actually went UP in points!

    I can get a Unidron link that will hit harder (assisted fire PSR), aro better, and be tanky as hell (2 levels of unconscious/dogged options), cheap enought to take a spare, all while basically giving me a whole free Nourkias with the points difference.
     
    LaughinGod, Lesh', Morray and 2 others like this.
  10. Morray

    Morray Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    135
    4-4 move, vet, mimetism, core link. So high speed, decent shooters good protection, and yea. Great models :D I wouldn't want LT on them tbh, and no idea why they need tinbot, unless you're taking the hacker for specialist? IN which case take the para with a 60% chance of reviving you fella that might drop.

    Yea sure they're clucky because they're a core, but the super jump is more than a pop-up trick, it adds great manoeuvrability.

    Unidrons are great and I love them, I usually go them. But they have weaknesses. One repeater in range and they start shutting down hard. They're easier to use, but rarely save the day.
     
    DaRedOne likes this.
  11. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,549
    Likes Received:
    3,629
    I just wanna talk about the sphinx a bit. Since I love TAGs so much.

    I'll agree it is a top contender for top 5 or top 3 TAGs in the game. Marker state+Solid BS+added movement vector from climbing plus+MOV6-6 all make this big boie very, very scary to face. It lacks a big weapon, though, so it will struggle against other armored opponents, making it best suited for deep dives into the enemy zone to kill their specialists, cheerleaders, etc. Which, given how fast it can move and how easily it can hide, the Sphinx can actually do really well.

    It will fold like wet paper to a dedicated anti-tank hit, though. ARM6 is pretty low for a 93 points TAG and while mimetism -6 will keep you from getting hit often, they just need to land one or two good hits to take the sphinx down. It's a good idea to always save an order to return to marker state and keep the big boi safe
     
  12. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    209
    Onyx is weird. Therefore the fireteams are weird. Haris team with TAG? Check. Rodok core with 1 Rodok and 4 Umbras? Check. Unidron core with 1 unidron, Kerr-Nau and 3 Nexus hackers? Check.
     
  13. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    2,000
    Likes Received:
    3,484
    I can't believe how many people are peddling this false narrative.

    Saying Nourkias is "insane" or "best profile" because he is what..? A CC-monster? This such a baffling statement that is widely shared by many.
    By this logic, the wider infinity community now agrees that Mushashi is literally the most broken profile in the game.

    I'm not even trolling by the way, try and compare them.
    Nourkias sucks ass for the exact same reason Musashi sucks ass:
    He's a frail bro with no visual mods and no actual gun to speak of, while being one of the best CC-monsters in the game that revolves around 90% shooting, while simultaneously starts in the DZ with no deployment skills, no delivery mechanism nor any smoke.
    The cheapest link option for Nourkias costs either 149 points or 124 with only 1 Xeodron + Kerr-Nau, so the plan here is to do what exactly? Taxi around mediocre TAG's in a meta that is either fully camo'd or full of hackers, so you can.... CC people with Nourkias? Shoot with his Breaker Rifle?
    Like what is your plan here? I mean, if that's what passes for impressive then, again, should we now start to Consider Musashi + 2 Tanko an "insane" link? They can get you around the same (a bit below) amount of firepower, have just as many wounds in the link and move around the same speed, costs under 60 points and are actually quite goo- oh wait, no not really that's actually a meme-tier link so why are we all in a collective delusion that Nourkias is good?
     
    Lesh', Triumph, LaughinGod and 3 others like this.
  14. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    2,000
    Likes Received:
    3,484
    Can confirm the Noctifer Lt. is totally underrated and now the ONLY Lt. I use for Onyx.
    It used to be that in Onyx you always reserved 24 pts. and 0,5 SWC for your Hacker Nexus Operative, now you can pay only 0,5SWC extra and literally the same amount of points to have a TO Lt.
    That's miles better than many other Lt. options the majority of NA2 armies are stuck with for example.
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  15. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    4,191
    @Zewrath While I'm also on the bandwagon that Nourkias is the game's most overhyped profile (although I am a pretty strong adherent to the Samaritan hacker, mostly because it's cheaper and can flex in a whole bunch of different directions - so it always does something useful), there is the argument that Norks at least has a delivery mechanism to CC in the form of cybermask as a weak marker state.

    Again - don't personally rate him, at all, but it's a point of advantage he has over mushashi.
     
    Zewrath likes this.
  16. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    209
    Nourkias doesn't have Haris skill, so Xeodron + Kerr-Nau + Nourkias is an illegal fireteam. Nourkias is an exellent way to use LT order (NCO) to move Xeodron and/or fry enemy hackers using Trinity.

    You can set up offensive trinity network with Bit & Kiss (2x8 targetless speculative or 3xBS14 pitchers to 16"). Both models can fill up their repeater pile using a single order. And you ofc set up Bit & Kiss last if you go first.
     
    Time Bandit likes this.
  17. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,560
    Likes Received:
    3,542
    The Haris team is the delivery method of Nourkias. And it is freaking gross.
    Xeodron MMR + Samaritan Spitfire + Nourkias is just insane.
     
  18. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    209
    I have been lately experimenting with a "LoL" (Loss of Liutenant) list type.

    The list has 2-3 Fraactas, 1-2 Malignos, 1-2 Noctifiers, Sphinx, 2 imetrons and 1-3 other models (ikadrons, E-drone, Bit & Kiss etc., Nexus LT bait). The list only deploys 3-4 models to the table and willingly goes to LoL during 1st turn, to get that LT order to Sphinx.

    Couple of interesting interactions:
    - The list plays extremely quickly and is very easy to deploy.
    - Imetrons are veterans and cmd-tokens can change irregular orders to regular, so the list has couple of orders to play around. Those orders are usually very cost effective because the list can usually be where it wants to be. Plays very well to missions where you have to move around.
    - It's a nightmare to attack against, because there are a lot of hidden deployment models and fraactas can easily clean up vulnerable attack pieces.
    - 2nd group is only used for filling up dead 1st group models.
     
    #18 Tanan, May 28, 2021
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  19. Time Bandit

    Time Bandit Vulnerability (Total)

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    879
    Why run it as Onyx at all? Surely you'd prefer to have shrouded, seed soldiers and caliban for that kind of list?
     
  20. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    209
    Camo tokens are very different from hidden deployment. You can built a similar list with Shasvastii, but it lacks veteran imetrons which are needed in LoL.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation