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Oniwaban in N4

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Catspaw, Aug 22, 2020.

  1. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Awesome, thanks!
     
  2. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    With Ikari and YJ not have Oniwabans and Oniwabans not being Specialists I think Ninja's are fine.
    I'm very glad the FO is still there, gained a DA CCW and kept his Combi actually. The KHD frequently ran into trouble for me because of being Hackable and BTS0 on one hand and only having Tac Bow/Pistol to shoot her way out of stuff on the other.

    Unhackable DAM14 DA CCW, Combi, FO is very appreciated. Even the emergency Flashpulse Surprise Shot looks good.
     
  3. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    other superior infiltrators will get the same update?
     
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  4. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Any chance to pitch CB a change to make Infiltration a straight roll in the rules and print the actual final value on the Profiles like Dodge for TAGs?
    Infiltration (PH=8) actually rolling on a 5, and Infiltration (+6) actually rolling on a +3 is a bit iffy to remember.

    Seems like a N3 relic that slipped through.
     
  5. kagemaru

    kagemaru Member

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    Great news..., say me that oni also got climbing plus and i will be happy
     
  6. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Agreed, it seems to run completely counter to their new system.
     
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  7. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Sort of got asked already but +1ing

    Is that also true of Bran Do Castro?

    Also +1 for changing to Infiltration (PH: X) where X is the number you have to roll equal or under. Would be much clearer.
     
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  8. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    PERFECT


    Add 2-3 points then...
     
  9. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    edit: wrong thread
     
  10. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    No.

    I think having the vast majority of skirmishers being able to deploy past the centre line on better-than-even odds would be bad for both game balance and game enjoyability, and the chances of CB implementing it are somewhere between Bob Hope and No Hope.

    Having Nomads or Ariadna start the game with 3-4 Minelayers or cheap Shotguns right in front of the enemy DZ is not a sensible suggestion.
     
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  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Rereading Teslarod's post he's asking to change the format to match gizmokits to cut out the maths involved with the -3 +6, not actually buff the infiltration roll.
     
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  12. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Wasn't asking for it ;)
    Take a look at the examples, I'd like the FINAL value to be shown in army.
    Right now there are two ways to get to the Final value and both require remembering there is an universal -3 to Infiltration rolls.
    For Grunts Infiltration [PH=8] the real target value would be a 5.
    Other examples of using replacement values don't have further modifications applied unconditionally.
    I.e. TAG's have Gizmokit [PH=13] and you roll for a 13.
    Or Dodge [PH=11] meaning Dodge before conditional penalties happens on an 11.

    Combat Jump (+3) happens on a PH+3.

    Infiltration [PH=8] happens on a 5 (if I parsed that correctly).
    Infiltration (+6) happens on a +6-3=+3, but people might not quite catch that and deploy i.e. Shinobu on 19s.

    I can give the feedback is that I've seen multiple people confused about this already. Assuming Infiltration [PH=8] overwrites the -3 and is final. And that Infiltration (+3) overwrites the -3 and is +3 total (which is explicitly mentioned to end up as +3-3=0 in the example provided by the rulebook).
    Now that I'm thinking about it there was a clause in N3 that a Fixed Value, like B1 for ARO, is applied last unless specifically mentioned otherwise. Is that still there and would it apply to Infiltration (PH=8)? Don't have access to the rules till later today to check.

    Anyway that still looks quite nested to figure out and would benefit from a simple final value or MOD listed to be applied straight to PH like everything else in N4.
     
  13. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    So you want to add extra rules text to about 80 units/options, several of which are already very cluttered, for the sake of people in the first three days of a new edition forgetting something for 7 units?

    Again, that's not a sensible solution, and would also require rewriting several parts of N4.
     
  14. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Isn't that precisely what has happened in the name of having everything there, right on the Profile, for every other Skill in existence? Inlcuding every former troop with Inferior and Superior Infiltration?
    Yes it requires some editing. Depending on how the army builder was set up, replacing all instances of regular Infiltration with Infiltration (-3) and ofc changing the Infiltration Rule in the PDF to no longer have a -3 and change the example.

    If someone wanted to make that change now would be time, ship will have sailed on it if it makes it through the first wave of bugfixes.
    It's not the end of the world, people will eventually learn how the current iteration works. The same thing has been true for nested N3 rules though and someone thought changing that part was a good idea.
     
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  15. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Except that you're not un-nesting anything here.


    And this is an example of how much thought you've put into this, or checked with how well it would interact with the new edition rules.

    Negative MODs in a unit's profile apply to the opponent when using that Skill.
     
  16. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    And you are not considering any possible Scenario special rules that could give more MODs to the Infiltration roll.
    We already had Biotechvore with a negative modifier...
     
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  17. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    So Infiltration +6 was considered to be too oppressive on Oniwaban/Shinobu in N4?
     
  18. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    As per the previous page:

     
  19. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Totally missed that, thanks :)
     
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  20. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    No need to get defensive about it, if you don't think it's an improvement and don't want to help that's fine with me.

    Was merely a suggestion for a problem everyone I know of ran into on the first day.
    Didn't take months of playtesting and an edge case to get there and imho could use the Gizmokit treatment.
    This is merely about asking CB if that could be improved by removing the MOD from Infiltration and putting the final value in every Profile with Infiltration, CB's call after that call not mine, just want to provide some feedback on stuff.
    No worries mate I'll take care of it myself.
     
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