No negativity in here folks. No "lose sectorals trollolol" So: vanilla; what we using? what works well? What does the faction do better than the others now?
Spoiler: Spoiler cause apparently simply pics turned out to be huge AF Essentially this. We aren’t the best at doing everything but we can actually do nearly everything and even nearly everything at the same time. MSV2 smoke bot, a TO HI With BS14, dogged cheap orders that defends your DZ with some basic flashpulses, cheap excellent warbands, basic doctor + engineer, one of the best AD troops in the game while having a respectable throw away Lt. Which makes us one of the few factions that actually are able to use Lt. orders very actively, with very little drawbacks or risk, all this while actually still having 20 orders. We’re fine tbh.
Export salt? (Sorry, couldn't resist). My experience with a Yu Jing opponent is nearly non existant, but the only player that has tried ISS exploded both my Tags and my Druze/Brawlers Link Team. What I gathered about Yu Jing troops is that they are durable enough to do their job and deadly 3nough to punish a miscalculation on their opponent"s part.
With JSA gone, our two traditional hats are both in doubt. Our dubious title as the CC faction is downright laughable now, there are very few CC specialists left and Ariadna or Aleph does this way better than we do. Hppefully this means they will finally get rid of the dreaded CC tax on our future units. As far as HI faction goes, we do still have plenty of good HI, but now Pano has more HI than we do and the NA2 sectorials run HI link nearly as well (they still dont have the order efficiency of ISS, but their links are better optimized). However, as the above poster noted, we are still very versatile and great order efficiency. We just dont stand out in any one particular field atm. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
What army are you referring to? Besides the abusive defensive link with Tanko’s there’re no HI links in NA2 that holds a candle to ISS. Every HI-ink we have in ISS just blows them out of the water, hell we even have the only viable duo HI link in the game, except for maybe Taskmasters.
Try looking again at the NA2 lists Wumings in Ikari can run Core, Duo and Haris. With Clipper in Core and haris, Brawler in haris. StarCo can run Cores and harises of Brigada and Riot Grrl, bringing a doctor, having an expert CC combatant who apports smoke in Sr Massacre. And Duo Mobile Brigada + Anaconda (Hi + TAG) No need to talk about the well known new JSA HI links configurations... That's mucho more flexibility than ISS's Wuming link. SuJian duo is questionable at effectivity / price rate. Hsien haris is cool but it's just an HI with two LI. Something the other HIs in NA2 can do also.
The best MI in the game tigers for one, a really competent MSV2 smoke combo in many shapes, Lunah, the really annoying Guilangs and Daofey is a really good choice, they can also play well with the lovely double aggressive LT (terracotta HMG LT, HMG Hac Tao with executive order and a chain of command pheasant to make sure no LOL)
I'd say we still keep that. PanO has some real problems with bloat and redundancy in the HI section. Some like Santiagos are being kept on an unnecessary leash simply because CB doesn't seem to like the idea of most MO units in vanilla. I'd rather that over them being torn out entirely, of course, but even with only the stuff we have now I'd say YJ wins out. Yu Jing has been the generalist faction more than anything for a while.
Mostly their Core links that can drag cheap fillers or dedicated specialists with them. 4 Riots plus Emily/Avicenna (Or Haris version with Avicenna), 3 Brigada plus Massacre and Dak for Starco Tanko Haris with Brawler, Wu Ming Haris (Why dont we have this?) 4 Wu Ming + Clipper for Ikaru I skimmed over JSA, but Daiyokai plus Domaru and Tanko/Domaru both seem good. Even if they are not superior, this is enough to give ISS a run for their money. ISS's main advantage over these is the order efficiency provided by the Kuan Shi. True, when you have so many profiles, redundancy is inevitable, especially with the Pano minimalist approach to things. Maybe they out to move MO to NA2 lol YJ does have a similar situation in regards to Shang Ji though, there is thread about this right now.
Kek, try looking at the actual army you have the said links. People in this forums seriously need to ditch their tunnel vision. 1. Clipper is shit, don’t oversell it. It’s not really a competent ARO piece nor is it economically efficient to support it to be as such. 2. Yeah. No. Played Corrigedor since the birth of N3 and MB are shit, they are an unoptimised Wu Ming. Senor Massacre only really adds very expensive smoke that doesn’t synergise with the MSV2. The Riot Grrls are legit good but I will cringe myself to death if I hear anyone utter the phrase “more optimised” when they get the option of bringing very expensive tax units along, who are literally exploding with bloat on their profiles. 3. I hope you’re trolling with that duo link with the laughable MB+Anaconda, considering that you then later go on to criminaly undersell what is, essentially, a duo of 2 borderline broken HI’s. 4. Actually there is, because they actually received a nerf. The Tankos can only use their former good defensive link if they link up with at least 2 domarus, which are way more expensive if you want to include a specialist in that link, which you should do. 5. This makes me think you A) never played ISS or B) have very little experience with it. I already commented on your underselling of a monstrously overpowered HI, what really perplexes me is how little you realise how much the Zhanying actually adds to the team and just how well he can synergise with the unit. Also, your comment on the Hsien is borderline trolling. The link is deceptively strong and have very good options for customisation, none of which NA2 have in the sense of HI Furthermore, even if you want to discuss or argue strong HI links, NA2 do not in any way shape or form have the capacity to bring such strong links, while simultaneously being able to secure a secondary source of MSV, specialists and almost minimum 17 orders to throw around with.
So just like ISS only worse? Which is neither cheap nor optimised, considering the poor synergy and bloated skill set of 30+ points characters they bring Pure garbage. Feel free to field it though. But why use that option and not get the much cheaper and better link with the Keisotsus + Brawler + Tanko? Why do you bring up the worst option and argue that it’s more optimised? Severely overrated as explained in my post above Seems legit decent, except the part with Tanko that’s actually quite a hefty nerf from its previous form, as I explain in my other post above.
Aside from Riots + Avicenna I'm not too worried, there's weaknesses all around. Riots really shouldn't have been in Starco in the first place, and allowing them to link with a fairly tough doctor who heals real good isn't my idea of a good idea. Shang Ji needs to pony the fuck up now more than ever. Karakuri and Shikami left a place there for them as HI specialists in that price range. There's a conspicuous gap between Wu Ming and Crane, with only some garbage boy sitting there. He's got a lot to live up to considering how fantastic they were. Shang Ji is really the only problem unit we have though, Yu Jing's HI range has been an amazing piece of internal balance since N3. Some other factions like Haqq manage this sort of thing as well, but they're working with fewer troops and their whole range is found lacking in the brute force department compared to ours.
I have to agree and disagree about your evaluations, mobile brigadas in corregidor, and the duo in star co with anaconda are good links for the list, of course they are not comparable with the Yu Jing links these are far better, but not available in these sectorials. Now I have to point out for those that have not yet realised it, Special fire teams compositions must be as they are listed, so an Ikari company can only form a Wu Ming link if 4 Wu Ming and a Clipper FTS is available, if a Wu Ming or the Clipper gets out and the link is broken and there is no other Wu Ming or Clipper available the link cannot be remade.
Avicenna is 27 points and comes with Wip 15, Doc Plus, NWI and a Flash pulse, I'd gladly trade one Specialist Operative Grrl for that in the link. Forgot to mention the core as well, haris isn't as good, but option is there. I suppose we have to agree to disagree on that one. And even if you dont like having a Clipper in Ikari Wu Mings, their Haris option (which can be formed without a clipper) is something I would like to have. The Army does make this confusing. (Since it gives Wu Mings Fire team: Core in their profile) That is a considerable weakness, on the other the Wu Ming Haris cost nothing extra, so bringing one along just in case is a good idea.
Shaolin Monks are still the only 5 point warband with MA3, which puts them significantly above other warbands who only have MA2 (like Morlocks, for example.) Vanilla YJ is still one of the best armies for Smoke+MSV2 strats. The only other factions that are on the same level are Vanilla Nomads (because Intruder), Vanilla Aleph, and Ikari Co (more due to the volume of smoke than awesome MSV2 units.) Vanilla YJ still has the Daofei, and anyone complaining about the loss of the Shikami should try it for a few games, because it's significantly better. It can actually shoot things, which is cool. Vanilla YJ still has the second scariest DZ to be in due to Kuang Shi and MadTrap coverage, only ISS has a more annoying DZ to navigate because of more Kuang Shi and more MadTraps. Tiger Soldier is still tied for the second best drop troop.
Won’t lie here, I’d do the same but don’t expect him to do that much with link healing though. Ask any MO who fields a doctor in link. Well, I made my case, backed up with years of experience and the fact that it’s available to a very order limited faction. I’d be hard pressed to ever claim that it’s “more optimised” though. Which is totally fair but your claim is that they are ‘more optimised’, which I think is demonstrably untrue.
According to ARMY Wu Ming haris isn't restricted, unlike the brawler special haris. It just has that clipper option. The core is restricted.
I think you are underselling the linked zero-v smoke template, while you are right that it doesn't work with MSV2, it also blocks los for all the MSV2 snipers that are common. Daktaris is also good to have, though worse than Avicenna that the Grrls get. I respect your experience though. Maybe I am too used to skill bloat and CC tax that Massacre BSG at 26 points doesn't seem bad to me lol Well, I have to admit I was under the impression that the Special core was optional. (Blame Army, it has Fireteam: Core in the Wu Ming profiles) So I thought having the Core, Core+Clipper or Haris (With optional Brawler) option is better than Core or Core+Zhanying. Correct me if I am wrong, but Wu Ming is listed as having actual Haris, so you should be able to form a pure Wu Ming Haris.
I would say between 4 Yuan Yuans, tonnes of other smokers, Rui Shi and the most optimised MSV2 link in the game, Ikari now wins hands down.
