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Notable big changes

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by QueensGambit, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

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    Ummm, you could combine MA and NBW in N3. Nowhere in NBW rules it was stated that you have to choose between them, only between NBW two modes.
     
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  2. Mannebein

    Mannebein Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected.
     
  3. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

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    To bad, you had to learn that after N3. On the other hand, who had MA and NBW? Must have been quite rare.
     
  4. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    I think he's referring between the two modes?
     
  5. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    I have a hard time believing that, especially when using a DA weapon where the extra Burst forces two extra saves. But until we have an N4 dice calculator, I couldn't say for sure. Toadchild hasn't finished the N4 Dice Calculator, and my Hideous Interim Dice Calculator can't do DA ammo or success values over 20. Maybe I'll try to upgrade mine since I'd like to answer this question.
     
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  6. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    For what it's worth I ran the math on this a lot back in N3. For Al Djabel specifically, MA4 was rarely a significant direct upgrade over MA3. Chiefly it would increase the lethality of the combat for both combatants, i.e. Djabel was more likely to kill but also to die; whether it was worthwhile depends on how you weighted this risk. I'm quite willing to believe IJW's claims.

    In N4, Djabel benefits from increased lethality from M4 thanks to the hefty damage boost without giving up the reduced enemy lethality associated with a negative MOD. That said, I think Djabel's role now will often be for after you've taken your cheaper vanilla Fiday. N4 Djabel is slightly overall better for cost than N3 Djabel, but regular Fidays have overtaken him by dint of having improved even more.
     
  7. Balewolf

    Balewolf It's all opinion

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    I'm really going to be missing the surprise shot on the Daylami though. I usually can't win a FtF without it.

    Not with my rolling it isn't. I need that extra die.

    Is the Super-jump nerf just the removal of falling?
     
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  8. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    Me too, and my recollection is that against other CC specialists, MA3 was better. Against helpless LI, either one was almost guaranteed to kill, but as you say, MA4 was slightly more likely to kill but the tiny chance of Al losing was also a bit higher. The big advantage to MA4 was against targets with bad CC but high BTS and/or multiple wounds, where MA4 had significantly better odds of inflicting multiple wounds.

    But, I've now upgraded the Hideous Dice calculator and run the numbers. It's closer than I expected! Here is Al murdering a Swiss Guard in N4:

    Active unit inflicts 3+ wounds: 4.16%
    Active unit inflicts 2+ wounds: 31.12%
    Active unit inflicts 1+ wounds: 72.59%
    No wounds: 22.93%
    Reactive unit inflicts 1+ wounds: 4.48%
    Reactive unit inflicts 2+ wounds: 1.37%

    Now, give Al the N3 version of MA4, and we get this:

    Active unit inflicts 3+ wounds: 12.37%
    Active unit inflicts 2+ wounds: 37.53%
    Active unit inflicts 1+ wounds: 70.74%
    No wounds: 23.33%
    Reactive unit inflicts 1+ wounds: 5.94%
    Reactive unit inflicts 2+ wounds: 1.35%

    So it's very very close, and not at all the major nerf that I thought it was. The change to the N4 MA table increases Al's chance to do a wound by around 1%, but decreases his chance to do two wounds by 6%. and his chance to do three by 8%. That still makes the N3 version slightly better against HI compared to N4, but the difference is pretty negligible.
     
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  9. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    Here is the N4 Fiday with DA CCW vs. the Swiss:

    Active unit inflicts 3+ wounds: 3.03%
    Active unit inflicts 2+ wounds: 25.88%
    Active unit inflicts 1+ wounds: 68.17%
    No wounds: 27.35%
    Reactive unit inflicts 1+ wounds: 4.48%
    Reactive unit inflicts 2+ wounds: 1.37%

    About 4-5% worse odds compared to Al Djabel. Still much better than the Fiday was in N3!
     
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  10. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    Agreed. They're looking so good in N4 that running 3 of them is looking pretty appealing even though it means paying the 6-point Djabel tax on the third one.
    - 15-unit cap means that the orders the opponent has to spend to discover them twice and murder them are more precious.
    - DTW shotguns mean that after spending those discover orders, the opponent will often also have to eat an armor save while eliminating the Fiday.
    - Supercharged Daylamis overwatching the approach will make it harder to get into position to discover/shoot the Fidays in the first place.

    I'm gonna try running three today and see if it's as satisfying as I expect :-)
     
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  11. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    I've been using them mostly as ARO pieces so I'll probably not miss this as much as you, but we'll see now that they can just deploy on my side of the board anywhere I want.

    Yes, so Tarik now can only jump straight up 3" to shoot as the remaining 3" need to be used to get him back to the ground.
     
  12. Jenian Katarn

    Jenian Katarn G:Synchronized

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    I'm not Haqq player but I'm usually at the recieving end of the stick. I have to say that I love that 88 point maggie! The love I can only observer from a distance or around a corner but oh what a sight it is! Oh, my love, you have tools for every occasion. You have Multi HMG, HRL and GL all! Ahh... I will get burnt, I will get shot and I will have shrapnell lobbed at me but now I will see maggie on the scenes more often!

    (just wanted to tell you that maggie seems awsome from outsider perspective.)
     
  13. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that this is enough to justify a 7-pts tax to old Al being the 1° pick instead the regular Fiday :sleepy:
     
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  14. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Oh joy. It’s possible that it was changed again, but it looks like there is a bug in Al Djabel’s profile. BS Attack (Shock) is probably BS Attack (Continuous Damage).
     
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  15. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    So he was meant to, possibly still supposed to, have a fire rifle with light fire shotgun, essentially?
     
  16. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Well... seems CB aren't big on proofreading :(

    But I guess it is a part of their "charm". Eh...
     
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  17. Agorapocalypse

    Agorapocalypse Namurr and Nahab are girlfriends

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    Bs attack continuous? Thats seems wierdly off. Cc attack continuous though, would fit and be terrifying on djabel
     
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  18. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    We're yet to see if anything changes.
    But I guess such a veteran Fiday knows a way or two to scratch someone the exactly wrong way ;)
     
  19. KwarkyMats

    KwarkyMats Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Halqas got removed. These ones I'm not surprised about. I kept forgetting they existed, though the times I took them they were pretty useful.
    Kaplans have a HRL profile now. Might be more useful to QK when it arrives in November.
    And finally with D-Charges not giving you a -3 anymore in CC, you can do some sick explosive punches with Nahabs and Namurrs.
     
  20. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    If that's the case, it's a BIG game changer, the 7pts tax would be worthy
     
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