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Nomads in N4

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    To those that are not up to date N4 is coming and is scheduled for Summer of 2020.

    This tread is created to discuss Nomads and their sectorials in the upcoming edition, Suggestions, ideas, wishlist's, opinions, things that work, things that do not work all are welcome if done in a polite manner.

    Now the most basic rule of the thread, be polite this is not a thread to be dissolved in arguing who has the correct ideas and who has not, all ideas are welcome and all comments and criticism is appreciated, as long as the tone is polite.

    For a more generic discussion of the upcoming N4 please use this thread

    Thanks.
     
  2. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

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    For Nomads, i think they are in a good place. My only suggestion would be to update the Prowler, and give Bakunin sectorial update. Oh, and new Moran sculpts :wink:
     
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  3. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Fix some of the old SWC and point costing (Primarily in CJC). BJC rework. Adjusted costing on the core linkable MI across the faction. but aside from that if the core of the game gets cleared up and hacking becomes more viable against more targets, Nomads will be in a good place.

    Edit:
    Oh and fix the Iguana.
     
    Hachiman Taro likes this.
  4. Retblade

    Retblade New Member

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    Im a newish player and havent been around for an edition change. Can any vets give some insight to a newer player on about how many rules changes should he expected in the new edition? Im hoping my tunguska dont see too much change >:)
     
  5. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I was new at the time but the edition change was a huge improvement with a focus on streamlining, which I think we're really due for with how rapid stuff is getting added.


    My hope is that this will put an end to the faction releases and put them in a good place to work on what they already have. Nomads really don't need a 4th sectorial.

    Tunguska will probably only see small changes and possibly a new unit. I hope Bakunin makes it in to being heavily worked on with the edition release thou. I would be a bit upset if they were basically untouched.

    I don't know how much Corregidor will be worked on but it will change how it plays with the new rules, and that will be fun for me.
    I wouldn't be surprised to see new profiles to give some of the equipment that has been released in an attempt to reduce the feeling of old vs. new sectorials. SMG Moran? I hope not!
    I would also not be surprised to see Iguana get updated or scrapped, otherwise they'll need to keep ejection as a legacy rule and it's already wonky. They might keep it like that for a year or 2 until they get around to it.
    Carlota should probably be scrapped if they don't plan to overhaul and resculpt her.
     
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  6. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
    Warcor

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    They are in a good spot, though some things could be optimized:

    In general I think TAGs should get a little buff with maybe a second unconscious state if they don't have Remote Presence.

    TUNGUSKA

    Highly specialized faction. Ok apart from these things:
    - Grenzer Fireteam Core with Interventor is rarely seen. Maybe allow the Interventor to be the Wildcard in Tunguska, since Tunguska has no real Wildcard. Would fit the awesome artwork for Tunguska and the fact that combat units support such hackers.
    - Some Doc or Engineer character or combined specialist.
    - Grenzers are a bit expensive with only one wound and no immunities.

    CORREGIDOR

    After the rework better than before, suprisingly, some things have not been reworked:
    - Wildcats and Mobile Brigada need a little rework.
    - Iguana needs a 3rd wound.
    - Intruder needs Shock Immunity at least.
    - And maybe a better hacker to be used with Morans, Iguana etc.?

    BAKUNIN

    The strongest sectorial for Nomads which is generally ok as it is. Would need just one thing:
    - Reverend units are a bit expensive with only one wound and no immunities.
    - Oh, and Sin-Eaters are useless at the moment.
     
    #6 HarlequinOfDeath, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  7. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    I agree Nomads in a good spot, aside for updating profiles to match the N4 costs lists and powerlevel.
    As it is one of is main strenght, a rework of the Hacking mechanic to make it more efficient in active turn (and less vulnerable to KHDs in reactive) would be help Nomads' playstile a lot. Seriously, KHDs needs to be at least as expensive as an HD (maybe adding some extra perks) and the ignoring firewall mechanic is too much (ignoring just the BTS MOD could be fine), plus usefuls things for hackers to do even versus non-hackable enemies; outside IL hacking aside from remote buffing is pretty useless. Also some ways to make the Hacking game a bit more order efficient (like pitchers being short movement orders outside of coordinated orders); or a pool of orders that can only be used for non-offensive actions (right now between unload an HMG and do shenanigans, the HMG is usually the best call). I had fun some time ago touching the Hacking mechanics here (but that was for N3 and it got too complicated, for N4 It'd had been different)

    Quick suggestions:
    More sectorial specific profiles (like Tungunska's superjump Stempler or FD Tskylon), that idea is amazing to give the sectorials more uniqueness. I'd love to see more than that. In this line, I know it's a long shot, but rules specific for sectorials would also give them more flavour (and an extra way to balance the sectorial)
    Bakunin needs better links and Nuns need a rework/redone. Nuns are very expensive and have no bioimmunity, with the ammount of shock there is in the game right now they are too risky. Also the custodiers ODD make the use of White noise akward at best.
    In the same line, Intruders could use at least shock immunity.
    Tungunska needs something more, right now the best part of the sectorial is the Hollow Haris/Core because Hollows are amazing, but Hackers get almost nothing for being in the sectorial and the Kriza get also few advantages from links, also they have a few orders and few (and non-cheap) models to throw in the way of warbands and rambos. Tungunska could use some twists.
    I'm not used to Corregidor.
     
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  8. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    A faction-thread where everyone says 'We're in a good spot' ... cant be.

    There is one point that annoyed me extremely lately: Spec-Ops.

    So:

    Spec-Ops:
    Give our Spec-Ops some (usefull) Nomad-Specific stuff.
    Nomads invented ODD? Why do the Spec-Op have no access to ODD?
    How about Crazy Koalas?
    How about a Jammer? PanO got one and they hardly know how to turn on the radio.
    How about some other fancy stuff, like E-Mitter, E-Marat, Blitzen, anything E/M?
    How about Counterintellience? Again PanO gets this and does not even have a single regular troop with it.
    How about a HD+? Or KHD, AHD? We're the hacker faction, aren't we?

    Most of the factions have some faction-specific and usefull stuff (except YuJing):
    PanO and Aleph get a cheap Feuerbach with ODD and BS12
    Ariadna has T2 and DHD
    Haqq got Viral, Jammers and I-Kohl
    CA got K1, Nanocreen and Morphoscan

    Nomads got what? Cybermines and Metachemistry? Pretty useless if I get a better Morlock for half the points.

    So sum it up: Give Nomad-Spec-Ops anything special that's actually useful.
     
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  9. Kiwi Steve

    Kiwi Steve Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see a better reason to play the models which got me into Nomads. Models like the Mobile Brigada, Grenzer and Reverend Moira look great but feel overshadowed by other options.

    Some other units feel like auto includes (looking at you Intruder & Kriza). Some more internal balance in factions would be good.
     
  10. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    Seconding the general hacking rework. Anything that improves any part of hacking game would benefit any Nomad/

    Make all Observance units (Kusanagi, Moiras, Custodiers, Healers) freely linkable with each other in any composition. Won't make them good but at least it would get rid of restrictions on an already struggling part of Bakunin roster.
     
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  11. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Beware. Unpopular opinion here. Is just my opinion, so i might be mistaken, but is from my games in this N3 after playing al the options I could think of

    Nomads, are in a good spot? More or less, but not all profiles, not all sectorials, there are a lot of things to fix, even if they can put some decent lists, there are too much underused profiles

    SWC in some troopers need a fix. We have reduced SWC in Zoe and the geckos, but pay extra in prowler spitfire, sin eater hmg, wildcat rocket launcher and kusanagi spitfire. Also I doubt the alguacile lieutenant or the morans should pay SWC in CJC.

    Tunguska needs a review. CB was excessively careful to no make it too big, so in the end CB overnerfed it (only hollows and kriza were saved from that). Interventor (known in fluf for working toe to toe with securitates) linking only with grenzers so they didn't get cheap sixth sense was nasty, and the nonsinergy of MSV1 with white noise was worse. Kriza haris is absurd, one of the worst designed of the game. Also, a hi tech sectorial, with the most expensive average cost (which makes them the harder to get somr good order pool) in its troopers, but with limited hi tech (only one TO, ODD only in two characters no MSV2, no command habilities, and so)

    CJC is in a good spot right now, they only need some cost fixing in wildcats (now are more expensive than bolts, wtf), and maybe some option in the profile chart to make them more interesting. If hacking is fixed, maybe we dont need to have better hackers because valeria could do the trick.

    Bakunin is good in most of its profiles (but maybe for the SWC and the moiras' cost), they just need a review in the links (that taskmaster with morlocks core they tested could be too much, but taskmaster in a haris with moiras or riots, don't seem too overpowered to mee) and maybe some new troop

    Regarding the general game, hacking needs a fix. Is too order consuming with not much real effect in the game. Reset also needs a nerf (too easy to use it in aro, takes out previous effects, has no malus, helps to move out from danger even in active turn and so)
     
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  12. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    Had to edit my post because of Intruder lacking immunities and Sin-Eater being useless... forget about them because for the Intruder I accepted this fact :( and I never play the Sin-Eater. :D
     
  13. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Intruders and sin eaters are too expensive for what they bring, but people will not accept it. Intruders are played because they are the only MSV2 in the faction, but if they were in yujing, pano or aleph, they would be asking for boosts since n2. Sin eater is one of the few troopers in the game that have good use for religious troop. A little review would be welcome, but total reaktion bots will still steal his place unless they gain sixth sense
     
  14. Freki

    Freki Active Member

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    Speaking purely as a CJC player.

    Brigadas need a rework, profiles can't compete with Riots and Hollow men. Rework the toolkits, reevaluate point costs by either giving a buff or substracting points. At the moment a core link is underwhelming compared to almost any other HI core (bare the ORCs)

    Remove Brigadas mix with Alguacile. The ML profile is too powerful with a dak and 3 cheap alguacile. The ARO threat is too strong for such effective cheerleading. It makes it hard to balance for the faction.

    Make the Tsyklons counting as Alguacile will be enough for some sweet agressive core.

    Intruders are not the powerhouse they used to be. They are less and less included in my comp. Maybe it is a good thing.
     
  15. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Care to explain ? I would have thought that nice B4 ARO with mimetism and no hacking vulnerability would be at least decent.
     
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  16. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    I don't play Total Reaction Bots because they have no flair and Sineaters are some of the coolest miniatures in the whole range. But since they can only one thing (Total Reaction Bots can be used in Active Turn pretty well) it should be made harder to outmaneuver them.

    So ... Sixth Sense or a 360° Visor on Sin-Eaters would be welcomed.
     
  17. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    Really? Have you seen this one from Ikari company? Speaks something about the state of the game when HI in a cheerleader core is not a broken thing.
    Ikari Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1
    TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

    1.5 SWC | 75 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  18. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    The problem with sin eaters is that anything that can bring down total reaktions, will have not much problem to do the same with the sin eater, with the extras of not having a good active turn and a higher cost. Yes, they don't have hacking problems, but they can't have marksmanship on.

    About mobile in alguacile core, a core os mobile is too expensive, but they should not be as cheap as hollows, so the middle point would be the mixed link. I think that is a goos solution, knowing that CB will not give extra useful profiles for a MB core link
     
  19. Freki

    Freki Active Member

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    I am aware, I got pinned down hard by that link once (on Biotechvore ...) and I think it should go too
     
  20. Ender101

    Ender101 Member

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    I personally think a lot is going to change in N4. So with possible changes in mind, I’m trying to format my thinking less into individual wants and more into thematic ideas for my various factions.

    I want Nomads to be able to leverage hacking more than any other faction other than Combined Army. We are exceptionally good at it, but there isn’t always something useful to do with it. If that changes in N4 where there are a wider variety of programs to utilize and interplay with hacking programs and other units/game state, then there will be a lot of interesting Nomad builds and interactions.

    I quite like the Nomad design and how CB has handled them throughout N3, I generally want more of the same design direction as we move into a new gaming space and be willing to explore and exploit design opportunities presented with an edition change.