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Ninjas as cc specialists

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Khalipo, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. Khalipo

    Khalipo Active Member

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    Hey guys.

    I've been playing yu Jing for a long time but recently, I realized I've never considered ninja to be a suitable cc specialist.

    Their stats are not stellar but with ph12 and DA, Marker state, surprise cc and MA3, makes me think I haven't played her to her full potential.

    Any thoughts on this? Experiences?
     
  2. Reservup

    Reservup Active Member

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    Depends on the target.

    Like any melee specialist, the ninja is excellent against non-melee specialists, but average at best against other close combat experts.

    I find that using the ninja in close combat is opportunistic only. If a suitably squishy target presents itself, or if a classified objective calls for it, then she is excellent in melee.

    Otherwise, it's typically too expensive on orders, and too risky given that I usually have her in a list to complete hacker classifieds, push buttons, or provide hacker support for other pieces.

    I almost never put a ninja in a list with the sole purpose of trying to get into melee.

    She's no Oniwaban, Shinobu, Speculo, Fiday etc.
     
  3. Stuffist

    Stuffist Well-Known Member

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    Same as @Reservup for me. Except that I might be a bit more aggressive with Ninjas if I bring several of them (or other mid field efficient threats) and I know my opponent CC specialists are not even close to him.
     
  4. East of Irem

    East of Irem Well-Known Member

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    CC26 imposing a -9 mod from surprise attack and ma3 is no joke. Ninjas are a very good close combat tool, as commented though that's a one hit move with a big order lag behind it.
    Mine usually press buttons for very littlr order investment and stand around trying to dodge/engage and getting shot. It is strange that this often feels like a good use of 30 points.
     
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  5. valukr

    valukr Well-Known Member

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    Ninjas are lethal In CC. Highly recommend diversifing your play style with them!
     
  6. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    How do you get the ninja in CC though?
     
    #6 Azuset, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  7. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    TO marker state + "Change Face" abuse.
     
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  8. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    CC is a nice tool to have, but not something you bank on (and remember, you take the Ninja to grab objectives, not for a fight). More often than not, my CC goal with the Ninja, should the situation arise, is not to actually kill an enemy model, but simply to engage it.
    CC is very order inefficient, and the Ninja's low PH means that even when it wins its fights, actually inflicting wounds is unreliable. Instead, by locking horns with a high-value model that your opponent wants to spend orders on and just leaving it there, your opponent now has to waste their own orders getting out of the situation, and in doing so might just end up killing their own prize piece in the first place. Just watch out for enemies with triangulated fire or hackers that could bust your head without reprisal.
     
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  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Ninja is a bit of a mid-field assassin. They're paper to a brawler's rock, but in a pinch you can sometimes run them over to the opponent's side once their LT is exposed in turn 2 or 3. My preferred Ninja profile is the 26 point Bow profile, the KHD keeps getting their brain fried by opponent Hackers
    Move+Move until you get there. Try to end movement out of sight so you can re-camo if you get Discovered.

    You can't change face "abuse" as a Marker because they can delay, but Marker state should be sufficient for most terrain set ups once your opponent has moved into mid field.
     
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  10. Stuffist

    Stuffist Well-Known Member

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    Killer HD means Impersonation too, so if TO camo token is not strong enough (MSV2+ on the table) you have an alternative way to advance with limited risks to your target.
     
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  11. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

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    You're kidding/trolling right?

    Myriad ways o enter CC exist. I mean, even if you face-check the opponent and let them shoot you on the way in, that -9/+3 swing is going to make their chances against you slim-to-nothing at best!

    But yeah, the 'change facing' abuse is a good way to do it, as is just walking past them and then into their rear arc.

    As a marker, the ability to get into CC is WAY higher than non-marker CC specialists.
     
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  12. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    The notable exception being if you reach CC in marker state, when the Ninja will be on respectable odds against other CC specialist unless they’re god-tier ones like Achilles or Shinobu.

    I’d be more specific - reaching CC can be Order-inefficient, but once you’re there it’s more Order-efficient than almost anything else in the game. And inflicting Wounds is extremely reliable, even with PH12, because it’s the high chance of critting that usually does the damage. For example a Ninja against an Orc is on about 70% to cause damage even without Surprise Attack, and over 20% to take off both Wounds.
     
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  13. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

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    A Ninja is definetely better in CC than a Fiday. 2 points more CC and TO to prevent them from using their BS Weapons is a big advantage.
     
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  14. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I would correct that as "once you’re there it can be more Order-efficient than almost anything else in the game". Most CC unit rolls only one dice which make them very vulnerable to a fit of bad luck (while an HMG roll 4 dice making it less sensitive to "I roll 1").

    We all had game where our trusty CC specialist failed to kill a standard troop (my last experience was a morlock spending 4 order to inflict 1 wound to a libertos)

    This is the reason why I rarely use costly CC specialist, only cheap warband I won't regret when I roll a crappy 1.
     
  15. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    What the hell even is that
     
  16. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Wow lots of people interested in CC lately.

    Due to the PH12, on the Surprise Attack only, I’d use the MA Level 2. +3 to PH. With the high CC and -6 for surprise, I don’t feel too worried about hitting. After that, use the Level 3.

    You must choose your target wisely with the Ninja. They are great for going after basic one wound troops. Especially anyone that might be the Lt. I’d avoid heavies, NWI, etc.
     
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  17. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    That’s actually back to front for bad luck. Statistically, the Ninja is less vulnerable, because in both cases the target can get a Crit, but the Ninja has a much higher chance of getting their own Crit to cancel that out.

    Take the case of rolling a 1 - with CC23 and MA3 that becomes a 7, and the opponent usually can’t beat the 7 without rolling a Crit, because you’re piling on so many negative MODs.
     
  18. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    I massively dislike ninjas because the profiles that have a gun are too expensive.
    KHD dumbass is useful only in a very boring way like getting the supply box/pushing the button or suddenly getting 29 points in the scoring zone on the scoring round.

    You should always want to use MA3, surprise attack or not, it increases your chance to crit to 30%
     
    #18 fatherboxx, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
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  19. Awash in Blood

    Awash in Blood Agent of Devastation

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    Now I'm new to Infinity, still learning the rules, but this reminds me of a video game about Ninjas. In the video game even if a opponent was completely alone, you would want to stack the deck as heavily in your favor as possible.
    Distracted, (ie. not looking) check.
    Surprise attack, check.
    Overwhelming one shot attack, check.
    Somebody who had no business being in close combat in the first place (those poor servants...) check.
     
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  20. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Stealth is an optional skill, you can goose not to use it, giving change facing AROs to the dude you're going to engage. They declare change facing, you walk round and engage with second short skill. You lose the surprise attack mod but better than taking a flamethrower to the face on the way in sometimes