So for those not listening, guys from the White Noise Podcast managed to blackmail HellLois into an interview and flatter him into revealing what will happen with the Backdoor characters once they are back - as well as many other nice information on ITS rules. First, thank you HellLois for both the interview and for many awesome additions to the ITS Ironclad rule for TAGs, prohibition of removing 2 Orders from single Combat Group lists. Love them! Second, thanks to the White Noise guys for arranging this interview, was a fun and interesting to listen to. But now to the meat of things: Backdoor consequences. Let me just say I'm one of the people who liked the idea of Backdoor and didn't have a problem with losing access to the characters in ITS. Howeveeeer, this leads me to the consequences - specifically, bonus they will receive once they are back. As HellLois revealed in the podcast, each of the characters will receive an extra Order, only ever useable on them, and only if the are the Datatracker. First impression : interesting and cool. Potentially very useful but don't think overpowered. Very dependent on the character receiving it. So, thoughts per character: * Lt. Stephen Rao (PanOceania) : bonus is useless. He is only taken as Lt option; while a nice profile his weapon loadouts are completely uninteresting and his main use is to fill out the BaghMari link and as a no-SWC Lt for ASA. Giving him extra order won't change this; he doesn't do any important work; he cannot fight or move well enough to be reliable as Datatracker. Simply, meh. And don't get me wrong, I like the guy and the profile and use him in ASA. * Gui Feng Xi Zhuang (Yu Jing) : hm. Not really familiar with Yu Jing that much, but I can see it as a minor bonus. Nothing super-game-changing but could be useful. * Col. Yevgueni Voronin (Ariadna) : absolutely useless. At least Rao with Mimetism and MSV1 you can try and kill stuff; Voronin cannot meaningfully use this order at all. Unless Strategos L1 also changes it to Regular order, in which it is OP. * Tarik Mansuri, Khawarij Amir (Haqqislam) : OP as hell. He can be Lt, there is cheap CoC in faction, simply take him and rampage as you like. He is already unfun to play against (critting once or twice in a game is fun. Critting every 3rd dice throw, and on 1 to boot, destroys any kind of fun the opponent might be having), so why not give him a further boost? WHY?! * Cassandra Kusanagi (Nomads) : this is probably the best balanced. She's decent, and extra order can be very useful on such a model. She can do missions, kill stuff, have fun in general. Linking her there is a bit of an issue, but why not - you can always break the link for that extra Order to be useful. * Andromeda (Aleph) : while technically useful, she is too vulnerable to be a Datatracker (either defensive or offensive one) and the extra Order does nothing for her (them?) so meh. I would like to know why these characters were chosen. Tarik doesn't need any help, while the type of bonuses to make Voronin and Kusanagi playable seem to run in opposite directions. The basic idea of the bonus is good, I just wish better characters were selected; my suggestions would be: * PanO : Bipandra could make use of it; she's not great but a free Order on your specialist is always nice. Singh would also have been nice if the bonus wasn't tied to Datatracker. * Yu Jing : Xi Zhuang is a decent choice. * Ariadna : Isobel could use it. Or Rosie. * Haqq : any of the 3 biker characters. * Nomads : Kusanagi works. * Aleph : Acmon would be far better. Or ajax. Or Penthesilea even There, my thoughts. What do you think?
I agree with your evaluation, frankly. However, I distrust anything Corvus says on podcast in principle, since they have a record of saying one thing and doing another... Not pointing fingers (Bostria...). Assuming that is the bonus, and that it will be giving an extra "irregular" order and only if they are Datatracker... I'd say it's a shameless power creep for Haqquislam, Tarik goes straight to 3 orders by himself, since turn 1, obliterating whatever he wants... not to mention he also has access to midfield doctors PLUS (Halqa for 19 pts, or the Tuareg...) who can heal him on 17-18... Kusanagi is fairly balanced indeed, but suffers the same problem Rao has: you tend to pick her linked (with a Custodier and a Healer, or with Moiras), so her extra order will have the same use as the Lt. Xi Zhuang is a viable option, and probably will see more tables that way (the Karnen with perimetrals tends to substitute him). Andromeda will gain close to nothing: she has too many "incomplete" packs, and it's too vulnerable in a faction where the Datatracker tends to be Achilles, Machaon, or a hidden Thorakitai in the least accessible position.
So, is that bonus like the LT order or can you spend it on Xi to move him and the link? Otherwise it's skewed as all hell. More skewed, I mean. (And also, they should've picked Sun Tze V2!) Xi is a Ghulam, roughly speaking, in terms of power and choosing Xi as Datatracker is... not great. Not the worst choice for Yu Jing Datatracker in most missions, but pretty damned close to it.
In which scenario are you willing to use the order to sacrifice Tarik? You never want to lose the Datatracker.
Any scenario where the objective is "Kill X with Datatracker"? So... Decapitation, Looting and Sabotage, Transmission Matrix (bonus for not being hackable), The Grid, and Comms Center. (I think I avoided the missions where you also need to keep your Datatracker alive, but it's not like Tarik has a bad statline for tanking hits, either) Extra mention for the two missions Power Pack and Capture and Protect, where a fast Datatracker is premiered.
The bonus is alright. I think it will only be used like half the time though - and only of Tarik and Kusanagi. I think the bonus isn't enough to incentivize you to actually play Andromeda or Voronin. Rao probably won't ever be a Data tracker as well as Xi. Furthermore - you probably wouldn't pick Tarik or Kusanagi in any of the missions where killing the data tracker nets you a point. It just puts a bigger target on a model that is already likely not to make it past turn 1.
Really? Combined Army won the damn thing and the reward is... all the other factions (aside from the artichokes and NA2) get a bonus? Tariq turns into an even more busted Rambo piece?
Is the idea, that the captured individuals are (additionally) getting their profiles overhauled, discarded?
@Hecaton you complain so much, it really sounds like you don’t enjoy the game. Why be so invested in something you don’t enjoy? (Rhetorical question - no need to start another rant). Also, CA didn’t lose a character for winning, and weren’t ever going to lose a character. There’s your prize. Deciding to like the prize or not is up to you. But to be clear, CA was rewarded. Also, we still don’t have Tarik back yet and have now way of confirming these statements. Cooler heads might suggest the “wait and see” response, but obviously you have trouble pursuing that route. Me? I don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Now go ahead; get on your soap box and tell us all how unhappy you are.
Well, then there is still some space left to improve them - maybe then they will fit the extra-order-bonus adequately. Most of them seemed to be taken off, because they didn't perform that well - an extra order alone won't fix that, so maybe they will be turned into something... better?
Hey man, im glad to see how ours CA HVT are upgraded to PHY12 and ARM2 BTS3, he dodges like a Rodok!!! its funny to see the dodge dices on the missions when the HVT be are the designated target XD
Yes for sure mate. Spoiler: b4ckd00r results The Combined Army prevails as the winning faction of the first Challenge ITS. The following characters cannot be used in Army Lists for ITS Leagues or Tournaments until further notice. Outside official ITS games, these characters can be used normally. PanOceanía: Lieutenant Stephen Rao, Bagh Mari Unit Yu Jing: Guǐ Fēng Xi Zhuang Ariadna: Col. Yevgueni Voronin. Haqqislam: Tarik Mansuri Nómadas: Reverend Superior Cassandra Kusanagi ALEPH: Andromeda Winter winner Leirbag is the player holding the first position of the World Ranking of the ITS after finishing Challenge 01: Crisis B4CKD00R, so he is awarded with the honorary title of Winter Winner. Leribag has selected the Combined Army to be the faction with access to the Improved Profile HVT (Improved Designated Target) in the scenarios including the Designated Target Special Rule, using the following profile: https://its.infinitythegame.com/challenge/b4ckd00r-crisis
Winter winner and B4ckd00r were different things. The former was for the top-ranked ITS player, the other was for having more data points. CA won both, but B4ckd00r was designed pretty poorly in that it it was a negative-sum game, and the bonus order, depending on how its implemented, could be unbalanced and Tariq doesn't need the help.
