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New Tohaa here!

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by Arkaon1125, Aug 31, 2021.

  1. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Well-Known Member

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    I'm Mainly a PanO (MO) player but now i want to expalnd my meta (since i've quite completed my PanO collection), and i would love to face Tohaa since i love the unique appeal they have. I have a lot fo questions on how some equip and skills work (in my neighborhood meta we don't have any tohaa player).
    But first of all: where i should start? Whic unit can be the key and backbone of a list and something like that.

    I see Tohaa have no sectiorials, this prevent me to use Fireteam: Triad?
     
  2. jmmelo

    jmmelo Well-Known Member

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    Welcome! Tohaa is awesome, but you might be on to a hard journey to find some of the key models :grimacing:

    Sukeuls are OOP, and they are some of the best gunfighters in the army. Our TAG, which used to SUCK, is now pretty ok, but it is extra hard to find and commands a premium.

    You might be best served starting with Spiral and expanding from there. Overall their models find good use on Tohaa lists, and yes, you can use Triad even without sectorials.
     
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  3. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Hello, and welcome to the Artichokes! Pull up a chair because this is gonna get weird and funky.

    So, first things first: Fireteam: Triad is special in that it is explicitly the ONLY Fireteam that works in Vanilla armies. Tohaa just happens to be the only Vanilla Army with Triad. It is also special as it essentially acts as Wildcard, in that you can mix and match models with Fireteam Triad together. Finally, you can have multiple Triads in the same list, which is important because you're likely going to be running 2-3 of them.

    As triads consist of 3 models, you will generally want to include a gunner, a specialist, and a Makaul. What's a Makaul? We'll cover him shortly. Also, as a heads up: our stats aren't terribly great. The only model with BS 14 is our TAG, our Specialists are WIP 13-14, and ARM values higher than 2 are a rarity. But don't worry; we make up for it in plenty of other ways. Also; Doctors, Paramedics, and Engineers are worse in Tohaa than you might expect: You can't heal Symbiont Armor, and we don't have any Remotes to repair.

    With that out of the way, let's go over some staples of the faction. We'll start with a basic unit: the Makaul. These guys are the backbone of our Triads and you should almost always include one in each Triad you take. Great in CC, Heavy Flamethrowers for short-range trading, and Eclipse Grenades for blocking LoF. At 13 points, they are also one of the cheapest models with Triad, and they bring a lot of utility. Take them.

    Secondly, we'll get a bit more complex: the Sakiel Regiment. These guys are your mid-tier units, and with BS 12, WIP 13, E/M Grenades and Symbiont Armor they can perform a variety of tasks for a premium cost. Symbiont Armor means that they functionally have 2 Wounds, but they lose some stats once they take their first wound. It used to be its own skill, but in N4 they wrapped it up in the "Transmutation (W)" skill, so just know that when we refer to "Symbiont Armor," that's what we mean. I personally am fond of the FO profile as a cheap specialist with D-charges and 2 wounds.

    The "upgraded" version of the Sakiel is the Sukeul Commando. BS 13, Mimetism(-3), Symbiont Armor, and great weapon choices make these gals THE #1 choice for your gunner in a Triad. She's also one of your two choices for a linkable HMG, so prepare to see this girl a lot.

    Now lets get into the funky stuff. First up: The Kaeltar Specialists. These guys are, in many ways, the glue that keeps Tohaa functioning. Their profiles are generally unimpressive except for a WIP 14 Flash Pulse with optional Chain of Command (which you should heavily consider); the main reason to take them is for the Symbiomates and Symbiobombs they bring alongside. Both are tokens you get to assign to a friendly trooper with Symbiont Armor when you deploy the Kaeltar. Symbiomates funciton as a one-time "get out of jail free" card, providing ARM/BTS 9 and Immunity (Total) to the model the first time it gets hit. Put these on your frontliners and watch your opponent's veins bulge as their lucky Missile Launcher crit deals 0 damage to your Sukeul.

    Symbiobombs let the model perform a one-use Pheroware attack, additionally imposing a -3 to any opponent during that attack. Pheroware is basically Hacking, but affecting models with Wounds instead of Hackable. You can try to Isolate someone, try to deal damage to them, or lay down an Eclipse Circular Template.

    Which brings us to our next staple: The Taquel Officer. The Taquel officer is a beast of a model, bringing Symbiont Armor, solid weapon loadouts, high BS and WIP, good LT and CoC profiles, but most importantly: Pheroware. The Taquel Officer brings both the Eclipse and Damage versions, which lets a Triad that includes one potentially kill an entire fireteam from outside of LoF. He also brings Regeneration for a 50/50 shot of standing back up, which is pretty nice. The catch? He doesn't have a model yet, so you're going to have to proxy him.

    All of the previous models include Fireteam: Triad, so they're great options for forming Triads. Other good options include the Draal Saboteur, Ectros (HI with 3 wounds!), Gao Rael (MSV2 Sniper), Kumotail (WIP 14 Engineer+Doctor), and the Kosuil (2-Wound Engineer). Neema is also an effective choice, being a WIP 15 LT with good guns and great durability.

    This post is getting long, so I'll go over some of the non-Triad options in a new one.
     
  4. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Spiral Corps is the Tohaa Sectorial.

    In the fluff they're officially an independent Mercenary company, hence why they show up in NA2, but their CEO is a member of the Tohaa Triumvirate and since the closing of the Daedalus Gate they're the main agents of Tohaa influence on the Human Sphere.

    They have a few token humans to maintain their cover, but that's little more than a metaphorical fake moustache and glasses to hide their true loyalties.

    Spiral Corps is also in active production, which makes it the better starting point ss you won't have to do heavy proxying or chase down older, rare minis.
     
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  5. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Well-Known Member

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    I'm still reading the above post, but where i can find This Sectorial? In Infinity Army is missing o i need to fix my cache?
     
  6. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Alright, so lets go over some non-Symbiont Armor dudes.

    First up; the humble Chaksa Auxiliar. These guys are your "Remotes," except they're actually LI with Wounds and no remote presence. They have a Guided HRL if you want to do some weird FO list (our hacking is, for all intents and purposes, non-existent), but the REAL reason you're here is for the Heavy Flamethrower guy. Baggage, Sensor, and a Heavy Flamethrower for the low cost of just 10 points. These guys can scan for ninjas, throw ARO discovers, refill Flammenspeers/Mines, and contest zones. You see 2 of them in a lot of lists and they're the best point-for-point cheerleader you can get.

    Second: Clipsos Infiltrator. Considered by many to be the best TO Infiltrator (though i guess it's HD Camo(-6) Infiltrator now) in the entire game (competing with the MO Trinitarian). They don't have the stats or rules that other TO Infiltrators bring, but for 25 points for the FO profile they are incredibly efficient at what they do. They're specialists, they have mines, they start in Hidden Deployment, and they're a BS 11 shooter with Mim(-6). Take them. Take two. They will win you games.

    Third: The Nikoul Sniper. This little guy isn't always the best choice, but he's one of my favorites. Sapper + Symbiont Armor makes him annoying to take out in a single attack, and if he lives he can always fail guts prone and use sapper to "stand up" without provoking an ARO in a later turn. Only MSV1 and non-linkable though. With a Symbiomate becomes a real pain to take down. Can also pack Minelayer.

    Fourth: Kiiutan Imposters. No, your eyes aren't tricking you; these guys are Impersonators with 2 Wounds. Now, they've only got IMP-2, so they don't get the double-marker state that Fidays or Speculos get, but they're a lot tougher and can still walk through minefields. They've got better profiles in Spiral Corps though (where they're AVA 2), so you should probably be looking at the Character version of them instead: Jaan Staar. With a Light Shotgun, Mines, and +1B Viral Pistols this guy is notorious for taking apart link teams and backline troops. His Symbiont Armor also lets him tank a template ARO, so your opponent can't rely on some Chain Rifle dork to protect his squishy cheerleaders. An absolute "All-Staar" model.

    Lastly, my favorite model in the entire game: Greif Operators. Specifically the IMP-2 profile. For 20 points, this guy makes an awesome "Jaan Staar Decoy," but he's also a competent model in his own right. BS 11 isn't great, but he can usually catch people out of cover, and MSV1 lets him engage other skirmishers on a more even field and denies smoke AROs. Dual Breaker Pistols let him damage even the toughest of models and get B2 in active-turn CC, while D-charges let him threaten TAGs or AC2 objectives. I've taken this guy many times and he's never made me regret it, though he's better in Spiral Corps due to costing 0.5 SWC less.
    ______________________________________________________________

    ... That was a lot of information, and probably more than you were looking for. If you want to know where to start: Proxy. Proxy proxy proxy. Tohaa models are almost all out of print and finding some of them is like looking for a Unicorn. As for list-building; try to shoot for 2-3 Triads, and try to make them as "self-contained" as possible. Something like a Sukeul HMG, Kaeltar CoC, and a Makaul gives you a long range shooter, D-charges, Eclipse Grenades, a CC Specialist, a Button-pusher, and multiple ways to fight at short range. Throw in Impersonators and Infiltrators to control the mid-field and some Chaksa to fill out orders and watch your back.

    Tohaa are very weird, and have a very unique playstyle where any one of your Triads is essentially a small list, operating independently and capable of handling almost any challenge thrown at them. Taking out a Haris can sometimes mean killing off a list's only good offensive gunner; taking out a Triad just means you get to deal with the second one. We've also got copious CoC options, so don't be afraid to play aggressive Lieutenants. Tohaa is an aggressive army that's a lot more durable than it looks and hard to completely shut down, and I hope you enjoy playing them!

    EDIT: The Spiral Corps Sectorial is listed under the NA2 armies. It's not TECHNICALLY a Tohaa Sectorial, but for all intents and purposes it basically is. They have a very different playstyle though, where you take one super-Triad, 1-2 cheap defensive ones, and then a bunch of Solo pieces. They've got a lot of profiles that aren't available to regular Tohaa and they make really good use of them. It's a lot of fun and has incredible midfield control, but it's easier to pick apart and doesn't really have "backup" triads if you lose the one with Tri-Core.
     
  7. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the info! I'm summing up all the stuff and tryng to understand how to build an army, and see what i can come out! My opponent is a Steel Phalanx (that is really god at playng and always give my MO hard times). We want to try to expand our meta with some new army, so next matchup i think i'll try Tohaa!
     
  8. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    They're in the Non Aligned Armies (NA2) section, as in the fluff they're officially a Mercenary Company and totally not a front for the shadowy Tohaa Triumvirate to fulfil their nefarious agenda.
     
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  9. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple of questions.
    • Igao Unit and similar, why they have CC Attack (-3) should not be easier to have CC 20 and not 23. I did not understand if this implies something more i can't see
    • Symbio Armor. When i transmutate because i lost my amor i loose my equipment too? (For example a Kotail Mobile unit lose Holomask and Holoprojector while they switch profile?)
     
  10. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    - The negative bonus is applied to the oponent's roll. It stacks with other modifiers like Surprise Attack, Martial Arts, Mimetism... so if you move an Igao into Close Combat from Camo marker state and the enemy shoots you back, if you smack it in the face in CC the enemy roll will suffer a -12 modifier. Pretty nice.
    - Each trooper is different. Some only loose ARM and BTS when the Symbiont Armour is killed, others loose a lot of equipment, skills, stats... As an example, compare the Sakiel and the Draal: the first one looses almost nothing, the second one looses almost everything.
     
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  11. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Well-Known Member

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    This happens to Weapon that have the traits like "Para CC Weapon (-3)" ?
     
  12. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Any negative modifier on a skill, weapon, etc. applies to the opponent, not the model using it.

    This means that Igao and Makaul will lower an opponent's Face-to-Face roll in melee by -6; -3 from Martial Arts, -3 from CC Attack (-3). Igao can get another -3 from Surprise Attack, and potentially another -3 from Mimetism if your opponent tries to shoot you as you close in.

    Bluecoats in O-12 are so nasty in melee because with Natural Born Warrior they turn your Martial Arts off, then their Para CCW (-6) inflicts a -6 penalty on the opponent while they're rolling CC 20. Odalisques in Haqqislam aren't great in CC, but their CC Attack (-9) skill ensures that no one really wants to try fighting them either.
     
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  13. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Also, with the way attributes above 20 work any bonus that raises your skill above 20 is very powerful.

    An Igao with CC29 (don't forget that +3 from Martial Arts) would be adding 9 to the number on the dice, which means a minimum roll of 10 and critting 50% of the time! By having -3 they can be made better at CC without the ludicrous crit chance.
     
  14. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Well-Known Member

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    Following your suggestion i would try to use this list

    Test 1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1
    SUKEUL Heavy Machine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    TAQEUL (Chain of Command) Spitfire, Nanopulser, Pheroware Tactics: Endgame, Pheroware Tactics: Mirrorball / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 42)
    SAKIEL (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]1
    KUMOTAIL Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21)
    KAMAEL (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 32)
    [​IMG] 2X SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CC Weapon. (- | 16)
    JAAN STAAR Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Viral Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1 | 31)
    NIKOUL (Minelayer) VIRAL Sniper Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
    DIPLOMATIC (CC Attack [-3], Specialist Operative]) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, Pheroware Tactics: Eraser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  15. Barsik

    Barsik Well-Known Member

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    Igao CC 29 how so?
     
  16. Cthulhu363

    Cthulhu363 May his passage cleanse the world.

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    Let's not forget about my favorite unit, the Rasail Boarding team. Effectively a 3 wound heavy infantry in a light infantry body. Yeah, they are armor 1, but carry cover with them everywhere they go. They have a wide variety of weapons, including viral rifles and spitfires, so if you want an aggressive and survivable LT, it's hard to beat these guys. since they have symbio armor, you can attach symbiomate/bombs along for the ride to make them even more effective.
    But wait! There's more! they also bring along a Chaksa with a heavy flamethrower.
    I rarely make a list without a Rasail.
     
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  17. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple of question about this Piece of Equipment.
    • Can be used in ARO (i suppose yes), if a player activate in my ZOC (and does not have stealth) i have an ARO towards him, so basically i can attack him.
    • Since ignore LoF does ignores Cover and most of all Mimetism of any sort? (still i suppose yer, since mimetism state that affect attack that need LoF).
     
  18. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    OP was asking why the Igao got CC Attack (-3) rather than (+3).

    Igao are CC23, with a bonus +3 from Martial Arts, I was demonstrating why the designers might choose to use a penalty to the enemy instead of further buffing the Igao's CC.
     
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  19. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Yes, all three Pheroware options are usable during ARO, which means the Taquel can also "throw Eclipse" within 8" on a 14 if you really need to.

    Keep in mind that Pheroware are, technically, BS Weapons, and thus the order required to "shoot" them is "BS Attack." This is actually a good thing, because if an enemy rounds a corner to shoot, say, your Makaul, you can shoot the Makaul's flamethrower (or Eclipse Grenade) and at the same time throw a Pheroware attack without breaking the link.

    As a bit of oddity; using Pheroware from a Symbiobomb is done by declaring its own special skill, so you can't combine it with other shooting attacks in ARO. Very weird. But at least it imposes a -3 on the opponent, so it's got a good chance of doing something useful.

    Both Eraser and Engame possess the "No LoF", "Zone of Control," "Comms Attack" and "Technical Weapon" traits. This means that you when you "shoot" them you do not need LoF, but can instead target anyone inside your ZoC. Technical Weapon means you use your WIP, rather than your BS, for the to-hit rolls, and you do not gain fireteam benefits (so no +1 Burst). "Comms Attack" means that the weapon ignores cover and Mimetism, but is instead affected by Firewalls, so trying to Endgame a Shang Ji through a Firewall (-6) is probably going to be difficult. It also means that enemies have to declare "Reset," not "Dodge," in order to avoid the attack. This lets you "ARO bait" with the Taquel, as if they reset, you Nanopulser them, while if they Dodge, you Endgame them.

    Finally, they also have "Bioweapon," which means that models with STR are immune (so no throwing Pheroware at REMs or most TAGs).

    Mirrorball basically acts like an Eclipse Grenade, except it's always B1 and doesn't get range bonuses (so it's always a WIP 14 roll) BUT you can place it anywhere within ZoC, which lets you drop it on Suppressive Fire models to shut them down and various other nasty tricks. It's good on the Taquel but AMAZING on the Igao. Being able to "Speculative Fire" them within 8" at no penalty is great.
     
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  20. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Well-Known Member

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    Super helpful and very well explained. Thank you!
    All this kind of trick is the stuff i love to play and i totally do not have in my MO Sectorial!

    Going further with this. If My opponent declares BS attack (instead of Dodge or Aro) using Endgame or another weapon (that requires a roll) result in a FtF roll right?
     
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