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New Player List Check

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by MindwormGames, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    After lots and lots of prep, we are about to start playing Infinity in earnest. I'd like to run my list by y'all and see if there's any serious deficiencies or glaring holes I should consider fixing.

    A caveat here is that I'm deliberately running a REM heavy list. The LT is glaringly obvious, there's a lot of models on 55mm bases that will make deployment difficult, and Loss of LT would be a big problem.

    Accepting those inherent weaknesses in a REM heavy list, am I going to have problems dealing with certain models, completing a wide variety of objectives, etc., etc.? I think I've got most of my bases covered, but having only played a game or two I'd like to see if I am missing something important.

    Thanks!


    [​IMG] Bots and Butts - Bootylicious v1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] SALYUT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZOE & PI-WELL . (0 | 47)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] ZOE (Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Stop!) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] PI-WELL Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Akrylat-Kanone, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Akrylat-Kanone, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)
    [​IMG] REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  2. Billy

    Billy Member

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    Hey there :)

    You've got a lot of remotes there! If you really want to run all of those, I would swap one of the Tskylons to the Spitfire alternative, that'll give you more dice in the active turn if you really need to dig an enemy out.

    You have no MSV1/2, so you might struggle against camo spam or smoke tricks. You'll be fine in the active turn against MSV smoke tricks, but the reactive turn could rip you up. Anything that can stack mods against you is going to be painful, dodging is already a bad prospect with all of those remotes on -3 to dodge from a bad PH already. So if they have ODD/mimetism/camo + surprise shot + cover etc. then you're on really bad dice!!

    I think you're going to struggle with objectives, Pi Well is a good specialist, but the Interventor and Zoe will struggle to complete any they're required for. The engineering classified is easy enough with all those remotes and two engineers!
     
    loricus likes this.
  3. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    @Billy

    Gotcha. Yea, I’ll definitly have some bad matchups with this list. I’ve got models for an Intruder, Zeros, Tomcats, Wildcat, and I’ve got stuff I can proxy for most anything.

    I’ve played around with including an Intruder and/or an FO Zero, but I’ve got to start dropping REMs for that, which is obviously doable, but I’d like to keep as many as I can.

    I was hoping that Pi Well could serve to push buttons, but that is something I am concerned about. The specs in this list want to be hiding under a rock and letting the REMs do their work. I haven’t run Zoe yet, but I was also hoping that I could stand to risk putting her forward since I’ve got the Clockmaker.

    Makes sense to swap out to a Spitfire. More dice will mitigate bad rolls.

    Overclock should help with Reactive though, yea?

    One Order can put both the Tsycs and the Lunos on B2. TR bots are TR bots, and I’ve got Zoe and the Interventor to run Assisted Fire, which I could coordinate on account of the EVO.

    X-Visors on the Tsychs eat up the negative range mods, Assisted Fire eats up the cover mod. Still not great dice with the BS 12, but you’ve got B2 from Overclock. Assuming all of those programs are running. So dice-wise its not much worse than Active phase, and it’s not a crushing Order burden to get all that set up. At least in theory.
     
  4. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Agree.
    Vanilla can't really protect against smoke trick in reactive unless you shell out for an Intruder. In active I think between Morlocks giving smoke to reposition and Lunakhods+Morlocks being able to get around visual mods it can do fine.
     
  5. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    Two things jump out at me:

    First, it's going to be hard to win missions. You have four specialists, but only Pi-Well can move confidently. It's painful moving the others outside the DZ and these fat-ass remotes will hog all the building corners.

    Second, you have a ton of REMs (again, other than Pi-Well) that all have approximately the same profile: Heavy weapon, decent BS, no defense mods, supportware. Whatever kills one will kill all! That kit is not particularly hard to counter... many elite units will torment you.
     
  6. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the feedback!

    I've fiddled a bit and one way to go would be to drop a TR bot, which after some jiggering opens space for a Zero KHD for objectives, and a third Morlock. I could also do an FO Moran instead of a Zero. Adding an Intruder would take more fundamental changes.

    [​IMG] Bots and Butts - Bootylicious v2──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG] INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)[​IMG] SALYUT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)[​IMG] CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)[​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)[​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)[​IMG] ZOE & PI-WELL undefined. (0 | 47) [​IMG] [​IMG] ZOE (Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Stop!) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) [​IMG] [​IMG] PI-WELL Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 19)[​IMG] ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)[​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)[​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Akrylat-Kanone, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 24)[​IMG] TSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 31)[​IMG] TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 34)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3[​IMG] REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)[​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)[​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)[​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6) 4 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
     
  7. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    A Zero KHD would do a lot for a force with a lot of repeaters and a hacker Lt, where a Moran wouldn't. Zeroes are also better at getting objectives because of the token state.
     
  8. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    That's what I was thinking.
     
    loricus likes this.
  9. Billy

    Billy Member

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    Careful on this one, you can only benefit from one Supportware at a time, and have to declare with the action which you are going to use. So you couldn't use Overclock and Assisted Fire in the same order.

    Also I believe coordinated orders have to have the same target - I would assume this still stands for allied targets of supportware. So I'm not sure you can coordinate assisted fire to the two TR bots. I'd seek clarification on this. It's not something I would normally bother doing, an order and a command token just feels too expensive for me in most situations.

    A Zero KHD is going to really help here, unless you're against Ariadna where I would probably switch it out for something else. FO probably so you still have the specialist.

    I think you're going to find you're purchasing Zoe just to use Pi-Well, given that you have a Clockmaker (with Zond) and Interventor already. You might find he's just not worth all of those points in the end.
     
  10. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    An EVO device allows you to coordinate hacking, and you can use different programs, but I guess you are right that it doesn’t say you can have a different target.

    But how does that work with programs that do not have a target, like Overclok, or White Noise?
     
  11. Billy

    Billy Member

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    In all honesty I'm not sure, worth a question in the rules forum I think.

    Hack is the common part, you can certainly use different programs, but I've only ever done that to use brain blast + suckerpunch at the same time against the same target.
     
  12. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Those both have targets. Overclock is all friendly REM with repeaters and White Noise targets a spot on the ground like Smoke Grenades. If people could coordinate order a wall of smoke people would be pretty unhappy.
     
  13. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    Sticking with the theme and considering that you have the SWC, I would consider a Meteor Zond. Dropping the Clockmaker (you have Zoe) and changing a Tsyklon to a Spitfire for more offensive punch would give you the points.
     
  14. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    No they don't both have targets.* They affect those REMs but they don't target them. White Noise doesn't target a point on the ground. It simply allows you to place a template (all of which has to be within the Hacking area not just the focal point al la Smoke): this is one of the many ways it's Not Smoke (TM).

    It's perfectly acceptable to use Supportware (that doesn't have a target), White Noise and Hacking programmes that actually have targets in the same co-ordinated order.

    Edit: I wasn't clear, some Supportware has targets: Controlled Jump, Fairy Dust, Assisted Fire, Enhanced Reaction, Overclock, Reboot, Teampro. But note the others (Kaleidoscope, Cybermask) do not. So it's possible to co-ord mulitple Cybermasks, with a White Noise and Overclock (for instance) because the only target is all REMs with Repeaters whilst the other three programmes don't have targets (just things they affect).

    Personally, I'd argue that you can Assisted Fire / Enhanced Reaktion + Overclock as part of the same co-ord because they share a target. But that is admittedly greyer.

    I'm also of the opinion that Controlled Jump, Fairy Dust, Overclock, Reboot and Teampro only have targets through of mistake of verbiage not intent. But that's a different issue.
     
    #14 inane.imp, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  15. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    From the Coordinated Order page on the Wiki: "If one of the Skills of the Coordinated Order demands a target, all troops must act against the same single target." (Emphasis from the wiki)

    If one of the hacking programs has a target, then any other hacker that can hack the same target has to do so unless the FAQ says otherwise. So unless every program in the coordinated order is targetless it would not work.
     
  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Targetless things actually have targets.

    Other than that, you're correct. If anything has a target anything that has a target must have the same target.

    White Noise does not have a target.

    Cybermask does not have a target.

    Kaleidoscope does not have a target.

    Shield 2/3 programmes do not have targets.*

    U-turn doesn't have a target (but this is irrelevent for co-ordinated orders).

    *I need to check, these have potentially been clarified to have a target. Because IIRC you can't FTF multiple Hacking Attacks with a single Shield programme. Edit: yeah, I can't find the answer definitively.
     
    #16 inane.imp, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  17. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    I meant "targetless," not "Targetless,":stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: AFAIK no Hacking program has the Targetless trait.
     
  18. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    The relevant situations are if you were trying to perform an EVO gadget, assisted Jump, and/or White Noise at the same time, or trying to place multiple White Noises at the same time. You can only have one EVO gadget anyways.

    EVO gadget all refer to things as targets in their rules, so if it doesn't count as having a target they shouldn't do that.

    I don't feel confident that you can Coor order white noise and some supportware, or that you can put different white noises at different locations. It seems like an oversight to me.
     
  19. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Multiple White Noise is functionally the same as multiple Deploy AP mine.

    Multiple Cybermask is functionally the same as multiple Suppression Fires.

    I'm 90% certain that co-ordinga skill without a target and a skill with a target has been previously discussed and agreed by @ijw.

    Edit: don't worry I found it.
    http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...w-does-it-work/?do=findComment&comment=971757


    I'd give you Kaleidoscope as the odd one out. Although personally I think all the 'multiple target Supportwares' aren't supposed to have targets: nothing else in the game has multiple primary targets. I'll ask later to see what people think.
     
    #19 inane.imp, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  20. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    This is the main thing I would consider
    gamey. Doing supportware and cybermask/white noise at the same time. It would usually only save 1 order but it would still be done and look silly doing it.

    I'm surprised White Noise would work but it requires multiple HD+, repeater coverage, etc. so I don't think it's a big deal. Rules wise it feels wonky to me but mechanically it doesn't matter.

    edit: hopefully they don't get ideas for targetless BS weapons designed to split fire with Coord orders or something.
     
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