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New models gamedesign

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Ktulhuist09, Aug 24, 2022.

  1. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    So now one profile in Haqq is the biggest problem of all?
    When Nomads, one of the best factions in Infinity, got a megaBuff to all their great REMs, including Zoe and Pi-well, which already were almost a staple unit?...

    I find it at least funny.
    First time since introduced Zamira is playable. She's scary - and it's good. Try to fight against her and then judge the change.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
  2. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    No one's claiming Haqq is anywhere near as overoptimized as Coregidor Jazz plus Tinbot, and no one is saying Zamira overpowers the faction.

    [Corregidor player here btw: I don't use them right now unless I need a crutch against a player much better than me. I actually don't think Pi-well's that out of hand, since he's got a combi, even in a link in Bakunin. You could already give him Marksmanship with a single order on an EVO. Given that every army got a similar buff on their FO-bots, and the Haqq ones have Red Furies, I don't think Pi's buffs are too crazy.]

    What I am saying is that Zamira is clearly as overpowered as old Muttawiah were, and probably worse thanks to the new way Dodge works. Stopping her will require specific builds with multiple Hidden AROs at very least (or all-camo armies), or never bringing your key pieces down from building-tops (oh what fun). [Of course, old Mutts were overpowered in very different ways, but it's a comparison not a direct link.]

    Also like Mutts, if you go first you'll have to spend half your orders killing an 11-point Irregular model if you don't want to face an unstoppable missile. Again, what great fun. :/

    Unfortunately, getting "a chance" to play against this unit is highly likely, just like we all got to "enjoy" 2x Mutts in every single Haqq army for N3. It's likely to be in every vanilla Haqq list from now on (like Morans in Corregidor too I guess). So yeah, we're all gonna get to "playtest" getting reamed by this unit with no way to counter it. Oh what fun.

    At least one can't take 2-4 Zamiras, thank god. She'll just take out one piece in the opposing army with very little chance to stop her. Still not fun, but at least it isn't old-Mutts bad.

    It's extra confusing to see the game developers nerfing Taigha, and then in the same update giving an even -more- mobile unit Berserk with an E/M CCW, with Dogged and Shock Immunity to prevent a mine or an ARO on the way in from stopping her. Seriously CB, are you trolling us or what?
     
    #142 Savnock, Sep 29, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
  3. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    So are you thinking that is correct to compare pi-well and zamira? Zoi and pi-well cost 44 pts and oblige you to build roster around them. Whats point to take engeener and not to take rems for maintenance. And of course you need to take smart missile for realising pi-well. Same time you can make any haq roster with any idea and just add zamira on remaining pts
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's obviously not a direct comparison and I'd point out that Zoe and Pi-well are excellent stand-alone choice that make the list they slot into be built around them on their own. Missile REM makes the stakes of dealing with them a lot higher, but is not at all necessary to make them very worthy way of spending 44 points across two minis - especially in Bakunin.

    Not that I agree that Zamira is an obvious N3 Mutta situation since Zamira has a bunch of limitations and counter-plays that N3 Muttas just didn't have. You know, the whole small silhouette with all close range weapons you could possibly want including one that shoots through walls on 15 and smoke. A good Haqq player would routinely lock all the important parts of the board down completely with them, especially since the heavy back-attacks were fewer in N3.
    This is a large silhouette which isn't all that great in reactive and needs to pre-establish LOF before it does the horrible thing and is defeated by a holo-ad instead of being aided by it. It's definitely very different and works on a completely different axis.
     
  5. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    I find zoe and piwell pretty balanced now. It is a good couple indeed and thats all.

    For me

    morans , uberfall commando, puppetbots, zuleyka , bearpod , jazz, diggers, bit-kiss and even fiday has to be more expensive or needs some stat changes. Zamira for instance seems to me now very strong but i need to see on the table it first before to judge whether it is too much strong or not.

    morans have to be at least 21 points in my book. I would even take him in my list even he is 25 pts. (repeater+koala+infiltrator combo is too strong). Before spotlight meta , it was already one of the best units in the game now more than that. Some rule changes effect unit power so much. In Morans we experienced it.

    there are also some units in the game too much optimised like jazz, gator and Unknown ranger. these type of units hinders to get other cool units which are still very good.
    like
    jazz hinders Interventor
    Unknown ranger hinders Veteran kazakh
    Gator hinders iguana/szalamandar etc.

    In these units,not about their costs but maybe need some changes. Like taking out mimetism from Unknown ranger. taking out nco from gator etc.
     
    #145 Angry Clown, Sep 30, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2022
    Jumara likes this.
  6. Kwisatz Haderach

    Kwisatz Haderach Zelenograd Shasvastii
    Warcor

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    I don’t think you need much to hinder Iguana…..
    But Gator NCO vs Szally is nice point to consider what your list needs.
    Extra order or extra B, better range bands and 4pts ? TBH we need more such things in Infinity.
     
    #146 Kwisatz Haderach, Sep 30, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2022
    Savnock, Rejnhard and Ktulhuist09 like this.
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