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New models gamedesign

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Ktulhuist09, Aug 24, 2022.

  1. SpectralOwl

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    You want a fair Aristo, take a look at Lunah, Massascre or Musashi. They're all damn good at what they do, but don't make anything else obsolete and their skill packages are in line with a slightly tricked-out unit of their type. Bill is not just a Marksman with free Shock, he's packing 6-2 movement, NWI and extra Dodge to get him up the board quickly and safely. Shona trades the speed boost for even more Dodge and Super Jump. Parvati has made the Sophotect basically obsolete outside ISS. Taowu- fair point.

    I honestly forgot SOF were A Thing, but Valkyrie is still very strong even if Hannibal is below what people wanted from him. And if you think Bolts can't shoot, I'd love to see you across a tournament table from my NCA- if I can save them from the usual alpha strike tools, a Bolt Core is practically suicide to challenge with a scoring Specialist. Those guys have won me most of my games between their accurate shooting or forcing the enemy to overplay their resources to take them out.
     
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  2. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    I dont mean that's bolt ia bad, my thoght was about that he is the only good shooter, so I wasnt clear enough in my previos post. In NCA you've got almost the same units for fireteams, cheaper fusilers instead of securitates and better swissguard instead of kriza. If not going deep into details, imho NCA > foreign.
     
  3. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    @Ktulhuist09 you´re point is very interesting, and i totally can relate to that. SwissGuard is a beast, so are Bolts. And fusi´s are the cheaper support for them. As someone coming from nomads to NCA it was quite refreshing to see how winning just by Stat-checking can be done succesfully aswell.

    I think foreign gets its points with the more subtle tools they have; cheaper midfield control via Zeros, more specialiced specialists (clockmaker, laxmee, Avicienna, although quite expensive), more access to play the Hacking-Game,... and in the end sometimes there is nothing that trumps a good ol´ Eclipse grenade to turn out all the enemy lights, no matter how MSVed they are.

    But, as said, thats everyones preferences, hat for one self feels stronger or weaker. (and, lets be honest: few modells look as amazing as Hexas do)
     
  4. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    I will agree with eclipses and zeros, but i think if you can totally dominate at shooting you dont need to play a lot in hacking games)
    Of course it's a matter of taste, but I have not seen a single tournament won by ForCo
     
  5. SpectralOwl

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    Personally, I've never even seen ForCo outside 200pts trial games on Tabletop Simulator. People around here looking for fancy Character use seem to have more fun with Steel Phalanx or more recently Correggidor, and most of its tricks are done better in their home factions. NCA seems to see a fair bit more play and even list variety from what I've seen online, but I'm the only local player- might have something to do with all our tournaments having stuff like Unmasking and Countermeasures in the lineup though, NCA is horrible at those constant objective-play missions.
     
  6. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    Na2 has the lowest player count in ITS so it's reasonable to expect never to see them at all, let alone in top positions
     
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  7. Elric of Grans

    Elric of Grans Well-Known Member

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    NA2, outside of JSA and Spiral Corps. People clearly like those, but the mish-mash mercenary companies less-so.
     
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  8. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    StarCo player here: they’re in a somewhat weaker spot in N4 and the normal Nomad armies have really cool options, so I mostly leave them shelved.

    With the ITS14 changes to Pi-Well I imagine anything that overlaps or competes with Bakunin is unlikely to get played much, so ForCo, StarCo will probably not be around much at tourneys.

    That said I do haul my StarCo out whenever I feel like playing character-heavy for fun though. Linked machine-gun (effectively after the B bonuses) Knauf with Uhahu, MB or RG tinbot is a really fun fire-support link. Massacre and a Brigada are fun forward hitters, or a Riot Grrl Spitfire plus either Emily or RG Tinbot BS makes a great offensive Haris. Etc. etc.

    NA2 are by design second or third (at minimum) armies for most players. Of course they won’t see as much table time as whatever you main. That doesn’t mean NA2 should be either scrubbed or really need fixes, maybe just a tweak or two to stay relevant- especially the ability to field a couple good fireteams that count as “pure” among their often-more-mixed options compared to base factions and their sectorials.
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I would note that NA2 sectorials, other than the two with strong identities of their own, weren't very popular when they were perceived as strong, either. Dahshat had decent numbers in N3 while they were considered to be one of the strongest factions the game had to offer, but they were popular compared only to other NA2 and only on par with the main sectorials that were perceived as grossly lacking such as MRRF.

    I don't think attention to rules or composition is going to cut it (even if several NA2 sectorials can genuinely be accused of being designed as an after thought); only making the mercenaries a primary faction in their own right would have a chance of making them popular I think, but that also means cutting down on out-of-faction units and replacing them with dedicated merc releases.
    ForCo is almost there; Dahshat has a lot further to go.

    Actual NA2 wouldn't be an outlandish thing to keep for actual non-aligned factions such as Tohaa, Tohaa With a Twist, Japan and Angry Japan - and for factions that for one reason or another is deemed to have split from their primary faction and need to be separated to allow for new design space.
     
  10. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    I don't know has this person, who invented this, ever played the infinity. Idea of giving models for 11 points berserk and e/m ccw looks so mediocre. This gamedesign just kills any point of playing with high cost HI and Tags. Very interesting to watch how any model in a game can be stopped by this, good work.
     
    #110 Ktulhuist09, Sep 26, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2022
  11. tacos

    tacos Member

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    Yeah the Zamira change is absurdly dumb - a buff that Vanilla Haqq absolutely did not need. That and the Asawira Rafiq duo getting even better with the ITS14 FO+Sensor remote buff.

    I find it really funny that the reaction to Zuleyka being the sister everyone takes was not to bring Zuleyka back in line with Zamira and the other Kum profiles, but to give Zamira a 14" berserk with an E/M CCW.

    I guess if you had to face her down, a MSV2 unit with B2 from a fireteam might have the best chance of stopping her? A regular TR bot or something isn't gonna do that good because she'll just smoke her way past it. Even then, what will prob happen is the Zamira player will keep her in total cover, dodge into LOS of the unit they want to go after, and berserk with the next order.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Didn't they come to the conclusion that Berserk was too good on Penthisilea?
    Anyway, no denying it, it is absurdly potent.
     
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  13. P4ela154

    P4ela154 Active Member

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    Preta/Gacki/Taigha like that - what?
     
  14. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that Nomads 6 point Morloks have had E/M CCWs and you can take multiple ones, right? Or that Taighas have DA 7 point berserk profiles? You can take a handful of each. Quantity definitely matters.

    Zamira is a S4 (not s2 like morloks or s1 like Taighas) model that you can take only one of. She does have a unique capability with the mixture of skills and abilities. And like was mentioned, she directly competes with her sister (who is a better toolbox). It's important to look a profiles in context of their army. Haqqislam has a lot of great Irregular profiles, but you have to balance them with regulars. It's a wonderful minigame.

    And what is with the dumping on Vanilla Haqqislam? We haven't been powerful and dominant in the tournament scene since early N3 when there was a lot of objective play. Unless I am missing something.
     
  15. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, yeah, what a nice story. morlock with 4-4 move must at least ftf with enemy, this shit just can berserk you on 14 inches and there is no way to counter this.
    If I need to explain how broken this is, so I think we are living in cursed community)
     
  16. P4ela154

    P4ela154 Active Member

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    I don't see any problems with the S4 silhouette when the model has smoke, 8-6 movement and mimetism.
     
  17. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    For example:
    [​IMG]

    This is chances to make a wound to 9-BTS tag with a berserk, where is 1 wound is enough to turn it into immobilased and isolated stone.
     
  18. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    Thats exactly the Point. A Morlock is quite slow and has to reach 4`` to even CC an enemy.
    Berserk Units can easily dodge into LoS (most berserkers have a PH high enough to make this no problem) and just berserk you. It is totally obsolet if they die, cause trading a irregular, impetiouse 6 point unit against ANYTHING is worth. And the only counterplay you have is "I have a statisticly absurd level of luck while rolling for safes"
     
  19. P4ela154

    P4ela154 Active Member

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    Nazarova can go berserk up to 14 inches! When the morlock spends 1 order to move 8 inches, Nazarova spends half of the order and can put smoke/use evasion/use bs attack.
     
  20. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    You guys are completely bonkers.

    Morlocks are good. E/M morlocks are the shit. The only reason I don't run 3 of them in every list is the 15 model limit, and even then, 2 morlocks to a list is common.

    Zamira is good, not questioning that, but she IS comparable to morlocks because for the cost of one Zamira you get two morlocks and that's kinda equivalent. Zamira is strong, but she's only one. Morlocks you get two, and you get metachemistry to help out as well.

    Morlocks have never broken the game, neither will an AVA1 Berserker with E/M weapons. Protect your TAGs, mates!
     
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