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New Jujaks and Korean character

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Triumph, Jul 22, 2021.

  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    More the point is the value of continuous damage goes down the more the damage on the weapon goes down. Putting continuous damage on a Combi is far less valuable than sticking it on an AP HMG. You don't really get full value out of it on a damage 13 N ammo weapon. It's not like DA or EXP where raw weight of fire can make wounds stick, you need them to actually fail a save first which means the ammo does exactly nothing to drive up the primary success rate for your attacks.

    It's like paying for grenades on a PH10 Tian Gou, doesn't feel great and you don't really get alot of value out of it. Putting continuous damage on a shock rifle is probably going to wind up being points bloat more often than being valuable. She's in a link with a bunch of different weapons with AP ammo, how often are you going to choose her to shoot over the Breaker combis, MRs, Flamethrowers, shotguns, or AP HMGs?

    I mean if it's free for no reason then why not, but realistically we're gonna have to pay for it and fuck that noise.
     
    #141 Triumph, Jul 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
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  2. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    My hope for the Jujak character is “Special Fireteam: So-Ra Kwon counts as a Shang Ji for fireteam composition.”

    COME ON CB.

    Bonus points for NCO or Tac Aware.
     
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  3. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Well the box is due in October so between now and then is our timeline for So-Ra's profiles to drop.
     
  4. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I think historically, changes to Army, downloads, and other additions have happened around the time of the new two army box release.
     
  5. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    I just don't have any hope or this character. It'll probably end up being another flat HI with an unfun profile without synergies... more of the same as always
     
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  6. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    I would understand this on PanO forums, but YJ has some amazing characters.
    Tai Sheng was absolutely amazing in n3, and she is still as good in n4 but she got outclassed by... Another character.
    Krit Kokram, his 1st iteration was steaming piece of crap, but n4 version is my absolute favorite unit in both IA and vanilla.
    Lei Gong is MVP in many situations in 2! sectorials and vanilla.
    Xi Zhuang may not be as good with the change to madtraps in n4 but this guy is still amazing and worth every point.
    Chung-Hee Jeong, another addition from nowhere, but a very welcome one. Amazing toolbox and answer to some of IAs problems.
    There is a medicare Jing Qo, as a solo unit, or duo with Shaolin she is too weak and expensive, but allowing her to join fireteams would open up some of her potential and at that point she would be decent.
    MI/HI Adil is bad, not gonna argue.
    Tao Wu is also bad.
    Qiang Gao is terrible, but it still looks like there is massive mistake with his price. He should be around 10 points cheaper and at that point he would be medicare at least.
    Sun Tze both versions suck ass.
    V1 didn't receive any discounts he should get for arm and hackable, and on top of that two of his skills got nerfed without discount, and with changes to hacking he is so much more fragile than ever before.
    V2 would gain alot by joining at least some cores in ISS.
    And that's it, all of YJ specific characters. Around half of them are either amazing or at least good. This give me hopes for So Ra. As of right now Jujak are lame and aside from amazing models there is no reason to buy them. Maybe So Ra is their way of incentivising us to buy the new product. If that is true then shes ought to be good.
     
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  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Jing would be great if she had a camo and some sort of forward deployment version or one that one that could be in a fireteam. I never expect specialists that start in deployment, not in a fireteam, to get to where they need to be.

    Krit has been great so far and I wish they would come out with a feuerbach version of him.

    I like Adil HI. But the MI is not worth it.

    I want more troops like Xi. He's ok in vanilla, see Jing above, but always in ISS.

    Lei Gong is pretty good. I almost never able to use his albedo though. It's almost always gone before I can use it or I just don't need it.

    Lunah is still fantastic.

    Liang Kai would be good if he could be a fireteam or had his own smoke. He's a CC specialist who can't get into CC and when he does, he gets killed by a lucky Fuliser with a pen knife.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    With the reduced cost of Sixth Sense on the Zhanying (it's either that or they removed an arbitrary extra cost on them), I find that Xi is no longer an auto-include for the Fireteams that can take Zhanying, so arguably there already are a bunch of troops like Xi :)
     
  9. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    I don't want to complain about our characters. I simply have problems to find interest in their setup or I find to hard to find them space in my lists without compromising the entire list structure.

    I find it to be more like a problem of the faction rather than a problem of the characters. the characters doesn't cover the needs of the troops, and the troops doesn't cover the necessary roles by themselves due to their cost and weaknesses. It's mainly a side product of having everything more expensive and the tools dispersed over different profiles.
    • Do you want a hacker? Ok! then you need to purchase a tinbot on another 30-50 point HI
    • Do you want to protect your solo HIs against hacking? OK! then pay 16 extra points, an army slot and an active order for a paperweight troop that can't even properly defend... or maybe you should cover the mid of the table or your fireteams with repeaters and make a list around mild hackers that will get crushed even under firewall.
    • Do you want to get to CC with a CC specialist? get a couple of troops to make it even close. No smoke, no mimetism, no marker state almost no dodge over 13 on CC specialists.
    • Do you want a doctor? get a paramedic and 2 other guys linked... and forget to rerroll or to recover those second wounds you've paid for (you think Pano had a bad time with taumadocs? try to solve everything with paramedics on PH10-12)
    • Do you want an engineer? get hacked! you forgot to take an engineer to recover your engineer
    • Do you want a TAG? take this weapon and this bullet and trust in your ARM...Ooops I forgot that AP and the damage bonusses comes with the breakfast cereals! oops I forgot that your engineer your sole LifeLine can't reroll his WP13...
    This even happens inside the character profiles.
    • do you want leigong to actually shoot, or do you want it to be able of pushing buttons?
    • do you want taisheng with a decent rangeband or do you want her with a tinbot? Or do you want an enineer instead?
    • do you want a peasant that is able of enter impersonator state and actually make use of it's CC profile or do you want a coward chain of command with a madtrap & shotgun?
    • Do you wan't your advanced deployment fusiler that toys with monofilament to impersonate and make use of his CC skills and take objetives or do want it to be a madtrap area controler?
    • Do you want your guilang to push buttons or to have repeaters?
    This is not a problem when your troops are on the 17-24 point range and your base trooper costs 10p, but wen you need to cover roles with 36-50 point troops that have extra needs... it's kind of a boomer

    Every time I make a list it's like being in a hot pursuit for my tail. a Neverending loop that has made making Yujing list's unfun. I don't think this character will solve any of yujing's issues. Not even White banner's issues

    Jing could be more interesting if it had move 15-5 due to it's climbing plus and his dodging being that good. It coult use it to make pseudo cautious movements and extend his movement... or it could be good with advance deployment... or with mimetism -6, or with smoke on it's hands, or 5 points cheaper due to frenzy, or...

    Adil HI could have the +3 dodge of his MI counterpart and it would have been damn cool and diferent compared to a crane

    Xi is fantastic in ISS. it covers a few bases inside any fireteam for a cheap price. but it lacks in Vanilla... it would need Forward deployment to make good use of those madtraps and flamer

    Liang kai works extremely good. I miss that smoke wen I see his beefy monk profile.And that move 4-4 +superjump is kind of a waste with the current rulling. but I recognize forward deployment+high dodge+berserk is super useful, and he even has other tools like mimetism a shotgun and a chain. he just needs a big building next to deployment to become a nuisance to the enemy. It's a shame his fireteam options in his home faction are so lame (in white company he's a badass)
     
    #149 Mc_Clane, Aug 9, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
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  10. holycannoli

    holycannoli Dancing to Kazak Kalinka

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    Hella cool is what I'm here for. Jujaks having a mediocre profile or some fireteam jank is exacerbated by them being relatively vanilla for a sculpt that looks so... damn... cool!

    I think their reliance on Shang Ji also is what exacerbates white banners problem of feeling like IA's left overs.

    But a damage continous spitfire might be the level of scary that may not fix their problems, but make them one hell if a pointman if their link options expand.
     
  11. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    I don't know why you'd complain about MI Adil - in ISS he's pretty great compared to a pheasant for CoC. Granted he's more expensive, but he brings a tag chopping mono ccw threat, sensor, wildcard and NWI. Given that the job of your CoC guy is to be sometimes useful and not die, he's got quite a bit more utility.
     
  12. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    It'd be a lot cooler if he got CoC on his (appropriately higher rank) HI profile. Para CCW, too.
     
  13. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of BS Attack (Continuous Damage) because I imagine incendiary ammo, which is cool and fluffy. Is there a precedent for this on any units currently?
     
  14. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    The Azrail, Mendoza, and Al-Djabel all have BS Attack: Continuous.
     
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  15. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Mendoza and the Azra'il, as well as a few Vulcan shotguns in CA.
     
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  16. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    Gib us incendiary ammo plz! Jujak is the sacred beast of fire, afterall :)))
     
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  17. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Well as much as I'd like changes sooner than later I doubt they are going to be changing them. They already modeled a figure with a ML and they are NOT going to be adding Continuous to that! That would be too cool!
     
  18. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Immunity [Continuous Damage] seems more likely to me. These guys carry a huge fuel canister on their back, so it only makes sense to have them as fire proof as possible. It's also not as much of a factor, so they can just tack that onto the profile without much worry. In return, we'd get a little more flavour for the unit and a sort of dedicated antagonist unit against MO with Mendoza.
     
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  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    "Ok my Gwailo is going to move here to slice on Lei Gong"

    "Alright ARO with a Blitzen"

    "Does he have Mimetism?"

    "No just Albedo"

    "So does my Gwailo... Wait shit, I've got MSV too."

    "....shit me too."

    This has happened twice now.
     
    #159 Triumph, Aug 30, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
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  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I wish looks could kill. They look great but it will be along time before I buy them. I'm already having buyers regret from having my new Shang Ji all being locked down by Mary Problems the first game I put them in. When they can form a fireteam without a Shang Ji, I might consider them.

    Edit: not they didn't list the weapons. That looks like a combi to me. I was hoping it was breaker and the new character would would have been a blister. :cry:
    [​IMG]
     
    #160 Space Ranger, Sep 7, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
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