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New Jujaks and Korean character

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Triumph, Jul 22, 2021.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    People around here don't let me get away with spending so many orders on such a minor benefit.
     
  2. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    Your monks never leave deployment zone? Thats not good

    It does not require much effort, when monks move out they get into position to help guilangs with their forks and active mine placement against enemy units that have moved out

    and monk that dies and throws normal smoke in reactive on his camo friend is just one of those things that just stop overly active fireteams
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Let's put it like this. Spending 6 orders on getting a Guilang to shoot a combi on 8s through smoke at a target that hopefully doesn't have Sixth Sense is at best a stupid expenditure of orders. Around here I can't afford to spend that much orders on such low grade activations, particularly not since almost no one allows a Shaolin to get across the mid-field unmolested.

    That this is a possibility and that it is strong when the stars align is not something I doubt, but this is not something you can get away with as a primary tactic against a half decent opponent on anything that isn't already on your side of the table.

    In most situations simply using the Guilang better is both a more efficient expenditure of your orders and more effective.
     
  4. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    Are your boards just... barren?
    And even if something stops monk at first on an open table, Shangji HMG usually clears the way
    monks advanced in midfield are really good at stopping enemy from doing mostly anything and investing orders into them to create a tar pit is usually a better choice for turn 1 than rushing in with zhanshi-shangji team
     
  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The idea is you use the hacker profile to force them into the situation of choosing between Reset to avoid the GML or Dodge to avoid the gun/mine.

    Shooting a combi on 8s does sound kinda shitty but if you get to do it on normal rolls it's a 0 risk play that has 47% to put a wound in against ARM4. That's actually decent for the risk level, and that doesn't take into account the damage potential of a mine being tossed into the mix.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    You're still failing utterly at explaining how you spend orders to make this tactic something other than a waste of orders.

    Here's a scenario for you. Opponent has deployed 13 models or Markers that you're sure are units. Board is crowded, there are no straight lines from DZ to DZ so it costs at least 30" of movement getting from DZ to DZ, but there are plenty of firelanes if you look at the table from the sides or use elevation. Opponent has a TR REM in a spot where it mostly covers the board edges where a Tiger would want to enter, directly denying one side and out-ranging a Spitfire approaches on the other, it is deployed so that you'd have to move your Shang-Ji to the central line to get a LOF to it.
    There's a Core off to the side, since your opponent is going second the Core is deployed to avoid your obvious heavy hitters. There's a deployable repeater guarding approach near the Core and the DZ has a scattering of Repeater-equipped REMs spread out, again they are guarding approaches and not trying to target stuff in your DZ. You can see at least one character hacker, deployed quite far back, you'd probably not be able to shoot at it without first killing the Core.
    The sniper tower that's dominating the board is empty.
    There are several Markers prone roughly 6" to 10" from the DZ's edge, most of them have a clear LOF backwards, none of them forwards, almost all of them are deployed in an elevated position and preferably in places where there are no ladders on your side and where they can see one or two other Markers. One or two of the Markers has no mimetism and is deployed aggressively.
    Opponent strips orders from the pool containing your Shang-Ji.

    How do you get a monk up the table turn 1? How many orders do you have left to do stuff with? What do you expect to have killed doing this? How have you progressed the mission by doing this tactic? Do you expect the Guilang to still be alive after this? Will you or your opponent have benefited the most from your actions?

    Absolutely, but fatherboxx wanted to use the Minelayer profile.

    Still, that's not a tactic you use early game because the Monk will get shot to pieces before he's able to put the smoke where he needs to. This is a thing you can do turn 2 or turn 3 when you better know the orders needed to score and when your opponent's ARO pieces have been lured out and taken care of, and when your monks and most of your hit pieces are already up the table.

    Thing is, the Guilang Hacker can kind of do this without the Monk, though, against most targets. A mine is sufficiently deadly to any line infantry, which remains the most common back-field unit, that simply the act of placing a mine that has a group of them in the trigger area is enough to force a terrible choice on them. You don't even need to threaten with the combi, just the choice between face-tanking the mine or face-tanking the Spotlight is enough.

    The bottom line is that while this is a tactic you can use and in certain circumstances it is good, it is not in and of itself a very good tactic as it depends heavily on the board state. This all boils down to that White Banner is crap at using smoke. Not that they can't use smoke, they're just poorly set up to use it well.
     
  7. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    Going back to White Company it can do the MSV hacker smoke combo even better with Nisse. Sure nobody will take this particular profile, but it's there :0
     
  8. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Immunity(Continuous Damage)! Superior insulation! plz!
     
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  9. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    It just requires thinking about using smoke a bit more creavily than just -12-ing TR bot/Daylami/Helots/fugazis with MSV2 long range piece turn 1

    because there is a game to be played beyond turn 1 in some games

    if you dont have alpha strike piece (and WB is not as good at them because TAGs are TAGs and Daofei is not reliable) clearing aro and setting up a tar pit for further smoke action is a very, very worthwhile investment

    would be a flavorful bit for ariadna 112s hah
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Ugh. I'm not talking about -12ing a TR Remote. Just explain what good the smoke will do and how many orders you expect to spend on it, for crying out loud. That's not even putting it in comparison with what amounts to good and effective use in other armies.

    Scratch this one down as another fatherboxx tactics™, I guess. As poorly explained as usual.
     
  11. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    I dunno what I can explain to a person that thinks that bringing warband into midfield (where it synergizes with msv1 skirmishers and core linked Lei Gong turn 2-3 why not) is somehow a challenging task.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Hell no. That's not at all what I claimed. I said getting the both of them to the enemy would be highly ineffective in my meta where people would be challenging the Shaolin as he made his way past the midfield (because you won't generally be finding units who care about a Guilang with a Combi that's eating smoke penalties early game in the midfield). Don't go changing the goalposts like you always do.

    Now, care to explain how this tactic you haven't explained makes WB on par with Hassassins, ISS or Combined in terms of smoke use? 'cause that's what you said. That WB makes good use of smoke. 'cause I never said WB can't use smoke, I said they don't do it as well as a bunch of other factions.
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah I agree, it's definitely more of a turn 2 or 3 thing, unless it's an objective room mission in which case there's usually something to fight either inside or very near it.
     
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  14. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Well, for the character I only see a Combi-HFT, There' could be an option for just a Multi-Marksman. I'm hoping for still a HFT or at least a LFT in addition to that. She doesn't look to have a visor at all so I'm not on board with that. I think she will have skills over equipment. The pose looks Leader-ish. So I think Chain of Command. NCO would be great. Maybe a Lt. +1 order. Only Gao has it in WB but it sucks on a character that needs to be in a fireteam and is a bit target. Also no on else has NCO to take advantage of it.
     
  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Text in the bottom left says Shock Marksman rifle. Probably has a profile with that.
     
  16. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    Jeong's K1 combi looks the same as regular.
    My new dream is K1 combi + HFT profile
     
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It could just be a regular combi, he's got a profile with that and there's no light rocket launcher model for YJ as far as I know.
     
  18. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, yes Shock. Hard to see there. Wish for Multi! But still, typos happen. We at last can SEE the figure.

    How about she has BS Attack: Continuous damage!
     
  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Eh, doesn't seem super useful. One profile has obviously already got a flamethrower so it's a bit of a waste, the other one has a shock rifle. It's not really hard enough to scare HI to any significant degree, and vs 1W stuff it's already shock. You'd be paying for this just to threaten 1W Shock Immune stuff.

    Depends how much they charge her for it.

    That said it's not really a big gun that'd really help the sectorial the most. Technical stuff like albedo, eclipse, smoke, forward deployment and stuff would be far more useful.

    Think of being able to do something like apply strategic deployment off a character that can duo with a Blue Wolf or Haris with Ye Mao. That would be miles more useful than just putting fire damage on a low damage gun which is just simply pedestrian in comparison.
     
    #139 Triumph, Jul 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    If she gets three hits, that's three continuous damage ARM saves. Seems good to me.

    I just hope they don't make her so expensive she will never be taken.
     
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