Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by vorthain, Apr 7, 2022.
I wish I have your certainty about this.
I'd say Securitate were a little like that. They never were MI (but then again the distinction is meaningless in N4) but they did go from mid twenty points (iirc) with iconic abilities (ss+repeater) and an unusual weapon combo (combi+LSG) to 13 pts (mostly) without.
Interesting. I didn't know that. But I just can't see it happen. For all the C1 starter packs of the last two years, they simply took the most basic line troops and gave them new sculpts. Even though they already had N3 era digitally sculpted line troops (Fusiliers, Alguaciles, Zhanshis). I still believe we will see new Ghulams. But who knows, CB has always been able to surprise us. Maybe Hassassins will get their own, completely new line troops, like MO last year.
I'll jump in the speculation bandwagon and I'd say I don't believe we will see Ghulams on the starter.
My opinion is we will see:
- three new baseline troops, maybe usable only by HB (like the Croziers in MO). Possible, but highly unlikely as I feel Haqq will keep a widespread use of Ghulams in all their sectorials
- three "elite" troops that compose the core. So I'll bet for 3 Muyibs, or possibly 3 Govads. This is the most reasonable scenario imho.
The reasoning behind is we rarely saw multiple starters with the same troops inside it. Ghulams are already been in the Haqqislam Action pack, so I'm inclined to say they won't resculpt them anytime soon. But we have past experiences of starters with "elite" baseline troops, where the true line troops were already present somewhere else.
Take PanO for example: both NCA and Varuna share fusiliers as line troops, but fusiliers were already present in the old Icestorm set (that was replaced by the new generic Pano/Winter Force one). How did they resolve? They put 3 Kamau in the Varuna starter and 3 Bolts on NCA one, both acting as baseline.
So, if I should wild guessing the content of the next box, my bet would be on:
- 3 Muyibs - base troops (possibly one of them with a SWC choice, like rocket launcher or spitfire)
- Asawira - heavy tanking troop
- Nadhir - light "infiltrating" unit (I bet on nadhir as it misses the model, but I think it could be realibily replaced by a Farzan)
- Lasiq - an SWC and/or shooter troop (my choice for the box, as they have a model that need a refresh, and it could fit well in the box composition)
The problem as I see it is both Govads and Muyibs are in the 2-3pt cost category as per Code One rules. If pruned out of some abilies, they might be falling down to 1,5pts apiece, but I don't see them as 1pt troops.
Asawira is a cost 3-4 troop. Nadhir, I guess, a 3. Lasiq still a 2-3. Farzan 2-3.
There's bound to be 7th model, too. It makes for a pretty expensive army just in the box. Crimson Stone Nomads - as represented (3x Alguaciles w/combis, Hellcat BSG, Sombra Hacker, EVAder Spitfire & Intruder HMG) come together to 15 pts (and a way overboard 4,5 SWC). I'd guess the writeup you're suggesting would come together as 16-18pts in 7 models. Maybe even up to 20.
Now, while Aleph can match it, it would not be well-matched against other Code One starter forces. Which may be relevant - or not.
IMO we need a 1pt-costing line troop for Haqq in the box. Currently it seems only the ghulma fit that description - although, indeed, "Bahram Croziers" might be out there. FO variants of Barids also fit the bill, but they are (at their current depiction) dedicated infowarfare specialists (hackers or FOs). While they might be redeveloped inot generic light infantry for Bahram, they haven't been so far...
Edit: what I mean...:
Barid costs 13pts with FO gear, Rifle & Pitcher.
Ghulam costs 11pts w/ Rifle & LSG. Or 12 pts with that and FO gear.
Drop the FO gear (~1pt), Pitcher (~1pt, I guess), and Barid gets on-par with a Ghulam. Stat-line, Barids have the stats of a premium light infantry compared to Ghulam - +1 BS, +3 BTS, which is counterbalnaced by Religious skill in the cot department. While Religious is not a C1 skill, it more or less balances itself out.
Just start slapping more typical Line Infantry loadout options on Barids, and we might be having our "Croziers of Bahram..."
Indeed, there's the Code One thing that must be considered in the analysis.
On a standard scale, I stand my point. If I compare other N3/N4 starters a Kamau costs 1,5 points (Varuna), a Zuyong 2/2,5. A HB starter with a Muyib as a base troop it's not per se too weird. We have great warbands that can balance the cost, so they can just throw in a Ghazi or a Daylami in the starter and balance the total cost, retaining both general effectiveness and the default feeling HB had until now (elitish troops with cheap warbands support).
But I agree they could decide to put a really standard common ground for greater accessibility of the faction, from a Code One point of view. But I still see Ghulams out of place in this setting, and I don't think we're going to see them in the new box (just a personal wild guess)
Not a solution for C1, as there are no Irregular nor Impetous rules in C1...
I don't think 6-mini starters are a good comparison as they're not designed to teach the game like an Operation box is. CB have also moved away from them in recent years in favour of the Action Pack (or Battle Pack & Beyond that become two Action Packs)
We've never had a Battle Pack with line infantry that exceed 14 N4 points/1 C1 point. Haqq are also in the unique position that all three Sectorials use Ghulam as basic troopers so we might see cold weather/tropical Ghulam in Blackwind alongside regular Ghulam in the Haqqtion Pack.
True, my bad
While I generally agree that it most likely with my Ghulam versus Thorakitai, I am just surprised with the September retirement of Muyibs and Myrmidons. Those are iconic units for both forces and like it was mentioned upthread, Muyibs were the Hassassin line troops in N2. The Maya show is called the Myrmidon Wars. So to me, I could see a reshuffle.
But honestly, I just want to know what will be in Operation: Blackwind. I guess we just have a little over two more weeks, right?
Yes, July 1st was announced for the reveal of the box cover but I don't remeber when I read that.
Myrmidons being retired isn't much of a surprise as they're ancient hand sculpts, prime candidate for resculpts.
I wonder if we're going to see something like a Hassassin N4 booster pack with Daylami and Muyibs, it's probably not essential to have 5 distinct sculpts in the catalogue any more with the new Fireteam rules, but would keep a number of them available.
I wonder if Rokots might not be a better example of what a new unit might be than crosiers.
I guess it is more about a new unit replacing a pre-exisiting sectorial's line infantry. MO had (IIRC) limited access to Fusiliers at some point, but their basic infantry at the dawn of the sectorial were Order Sergeants. They remained in the faction (although in a different role), and their original niche was taken over by the newcomer Crosiers.
Rokots don't really have that kind of a perspective yet.
Though, sure, they are an interesting variety compared to Line Kazaks - especially given their "intended" environment is the confined spaces of an orbital installation etc.
Rokots feel more like 'Flot versions of the Metro/Volunteer than a line Kazak. Their loadouts are pretty similar to a Daylami (though no' fausts) but Rokots are Regular and have lower BS.
Looking in CB store, the next minis stop selling in 1st August:
Hassasin starter pack.
Al Djabel (character).
Profiles without mini.
Medical specialist Rahman Rouhani (character from dungeon crawler game).
Yara Haddad (character).
I think contents from C1 Haqq are in this list. So, my hopes are a rework for muyibs (who were LI in past editions and basic profile for spec ops in Hassa), and no more ghulams again in the box. I think foreign troops for hassa sectorial may be in the expansions packs.
I think Rahman Rouhani appears in Dire foes pack like otres characteres from the board game.
I think we will see a Shujae mini in the primary box, and in the beyond we will see Yara. Yara is a natural counter option to ASS and just makes far too much sense. We could see a Nadhir in the beyond box as well (we saw a malignos in the Wildfire beyond box).
I dont think we need a rework of Muyibs, and they will not change from an elite MI. I would be suprised to see a rework of Muyibs over a simple resculpt. I also did see from I think Carlos that he hinted at a new profile or two.
I hope we get some new profiles so we can finally be competitively viable.
I see that I am not the only aficionado of satire.
I am glad you explained the satire lol, I was like "WOAH! Hold up...what did he say???"
Because I know CB cant close out a year without a HB rework.