Pulling this one from the Yu Jing forums because it caused a minor fuss to ask for official clarification on the FAQ; Does Neurocinetics prevent YĀN HUǑ 2 Missile Launchers + TinBot C (Neurocinetics) / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 56) from benefitting from Twin Weapon in the active turn? I.e. does the above profile have Burst 2 in the active turn as well as reactive turn? Edits: mostly formatting
To clarify, the arguments are that the Missile Launcher already is burst 1 and you need a separate rule to up it to burst 2, and Neurocinetics doesn't have anything preventing other rules from increasing burst. Or maybe I'm misinterpreting the other stance and what they're saying is that Neurocinetics pulls the burst of individual weapons down to 1, not the model's total burst. In either case, there's a few claiming that Yan Huo NeuroTin essentially has Total Reaction on the MLs (but not pistol)
yes it prevents it. If you want to go down the RAW rabbithole however the YanHao gets no B2 in ARO because nuero doesnt stack with twins in reactive. However we dont do that to yu jing so they shouldnt expect to be able to try it the other way
FAQ 1.3, page 6 clearly states Then Neurocinetics, per HSN3, is an Obligatory skill that states Active turn Burst is ONE. Not "set to one", "recalculate from a base of 1", or even "change the base Burst to 1", but one.
As far as that goes, the FAQ explicitly fixed that by stating neuro allows a yan huo to use take advantage of twin weapons in ARO. So yes, RAW does support it.
Playing devil's advocate; the fact that we needed an FAQ to fix this should give you the loophole that the other side (so to speak) argues for. If Neurocinetics didn't work for Twin Weapons in Reactive prior to FAQ, why does it work for Twin Weapons in Active? Errr... you might want to read Neurocinetics again. NEUROCINETICS AUTOMATIC SKILL Obligatory REQUIREMENTS EFFECTS During the Active Turn, the Burst (B) value of all the BS Weapons of the trooper with this Special Skill are reduced to 1.
I did. "all the BS Weapons of the trooper with this Special Skill are reduced to 1" sounds to me like an absolute, not as an "before/after modifiers"... As for the FAQ, the problem was that people was not sure they could use the ML with B2 on Reactive. It's a single model with twin weapons and neurocinetics (the others being the Sin Eater and the "total reaction" Chaksa of the Tohaa).
Well, since @Shango isn't here yet; how is this reduction in burst and the subsequent Twin Weapons interaction different from the general reduction in burst during ARO and a Fireteam's burst MOD? During an ARO, "the B value is reduced to 1" which is near enough the identical wording (or at least effect) and the game doesn't have an over-all set order of math like Warhammer does. I must admit I am intrigued by this, and considering the price of the piece in question, as well as the undefined nature of the situation, I do think this at least deserves and extended FAQ
I bring my interpretation to the rules in question: For me both are stackable because Twin weapons does not increase the burst of the ML. It just allows you to use (or not) a bonus of + 1 to burst. So the burst of the ML is 1 with or without twin weapons. Neurocinetics reduces the burst to 1 but in no way prevents the player from benefiting from the twin weapons and the bonus they bring during the game. For the specific case of Yan Huo Neurocinetics also allows to benefit from this option (Burst + 1) during the reactive turn which is not normally permitted by the twin weapons. I am totally ok with that but Twin Weapons dont give Burst +1 it's just and shooting option that give a burst bonus of 1. So for me : ML = Burst 1 ML+TWeapons = Burst 1 + optional burst + 1 no matter during the active turn ML+TWeapons + Neurocinetics = Burst 1 (and reduce to 1 by Neuro) + optional burst + 1 no matter during the active turn and full burst (of 1) during reactive turn And thanks to the FAQ Yan Huo ML+TWeapons + Neurocinetics = Burst 1 (and reduce to 1 by Neuro) + optional burst + 1 no matter during the active turn and full burst (of 1) during reactive turn + optional burst + 1 . Edit : Similarly Neurocinetics does not remove the optional side of the twin weapons
I think you're looking at the wrong part of the interaction, it's the Twin Weapons rule that's critical. Twin Weapons increases the Burst of the weapon: Troopers with two of the same BS weapon can use them as a single weapon with a +1 Bonus to its Burst (B). Which is going to be reduced to 1 by Neurocinetics: During the Active Turn, the Burst (B) value of all the BS Weapons of the trooper with this Special Skill are reduced to 1.
Still for my interpretation: one can not considered that the ML have a B2 because it is not the case. TW Don't give B2 but just B1+optional +1 I see nothing in neurocinetics that prevents the use of twin weapons and benefit from this bonus knowing that the Burst of ML is always 1.
Even when benefiting from TW you still shoot B1 with neuro. As IJW quoted, TW ML is considered a single weapon. So the Yan Huo can choose between these single weapon : his ML B1, his other ML B1, his TW ML B2, or his Pistol B2. No matter which single weapon he choose, his B will be reduced to 1 in the Active Turn.
The RAW has already been dealt with, so I'll just add a different perspective: If it was supposed to work in Active Turn as well as Reactive, they could have just given the model Total Reaction instead of Neurocinetics.
Which they could just as easily have issued a FAQ for, like they did for Neurocinetics, if it was supposed to work that way.
It'll be hilarious if Yan Huo gets Fireteam: Duo in Invincible Army - at which point the difference between Neurocinetics and Total Reaction becomes... how to put it... hyper magnetizing?
Because it's on a Tinbot. If Invincible Army is released and, as some people predict/wish the MHMG profile gets Fireteam: Duo, you get a BS14 MHMG with access to whatever is inside the Dual Missile Launcher's Tinbot and then it makes a whole huge difference whether it's Neurocinetics or Total Reaction - even with Shango's interpretation.
