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NCO in Camo State

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Tongfa, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. Tongfa

    Tongfa ULTRA INSTINCT UKR

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    For pieces like the 2nd Battalion Scots Guard NCO when working with a Scout Lt, do I declare that I am using the Lt Order on the Scots Guard NCO? Or do I have the declare I am using the NCO rule itself? Would this lead to a scenario where the Scots Guard NCO looks like it is just a regular camo Lt?

    I've only every used the NCO rule with Patsy (so there was no confusion about what was going on).
     
  2. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    NCO il open info, that could stay undeclared thanks to Camo.

    Effects
    So you take the Lt Order and you spend it on your Camo model.

    Tricky!
     
  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    You'd need to announce that you're using the Lt Order as a Regular Order from NCO.

    It's not permitted to spend the Lt order on the NCO trooper without using the optional special skill NCO.

    The same thing occurs with Bran when you declare Jump as a Short Movement Skill using Superjump.

    Edit: actually I’m reconsidering, you use Minelayer without announcing it. So yeah, what Tox said.
     
  4. Tongfa

    Tongfa ULTRA INSTINCT UKR

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    Right, so it would appear that the Scots Guard is just a Camo Lt, since all I'm doing is saying "I'm using my lt order on this camo token"
     
  5. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Just remember that you HAVE TO disclose it has the NCO skill as soon as it reveals himself
     
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  6. Tongfa

    Tongfa ULTRA INSTINCT UKR

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    ofc, but tbh as soon as the NCO 2nd Battalion Scots God un-camos, it would be understood what he's doing. It was when he was under marker state that confused me.
     
  7. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    It's just that not all of the players use to know possible Lts and NCO of all armies
     
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  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, the basic rules for orders is that their status is always open information. When the LT order is used as a Regular Order from their Combat Group, this status of being used as a different type of order should be considered Open.
     
  9. Kumatake81

    Kumatake81 Well-Known Member

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    NCO doesn't say 'transforms into a regular order'.
    The last bulletpoint even says:

    If the owner of this Special Skill belongs to a Fireteam and is designated as the Team Leader, this Special Lieutenant Order can be used to activate the Fireteam.

    So i think the orders is not transformed, but can be used as if it were a regular order for that trooper...
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I didn't write that it transforms...
     
  11. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    If you read the line I posted up there, NCO uses the Lt Order.
    Stratego TRANSFORMS the Lt Order in a Regular Order
     
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  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If you read what I wrote, the status of the order you are using is not that you are using it as an LT Order. I'm arguing that this has nothing to do with the skills themselves, but with the orders and activation rules.
     
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  13. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Are you referring to this?
    upload_2020-10-30_12-3-52.png

    Because it means that you must tell your opponent WHICH Order you are going to use (Reg/Irr, group, Lt) and when you activate NCO you simply declare you are using your Lt Order, as stated in NCO rules. The fact that the NCO is in marker state lets you avoid to inform your opponent WHY that model uses it.
     
  14. Kumatake81

    Kumatake81 Well-Known Member

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    I can't see where the 'status' (whatever this means in game terms) of the Lt order chanes due to NCO. It simply says you can use the Lt order with that model.
    But maybe we just have to agree that we disagree:grinning:
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    You can use it "considering it as another Regular Order of their Combat Group." meaning if there are any skills that technically can't be declared using an LT order, those restrictions wouldn't apply if declared through NCO.
    E.g. if your NCO also happens to be LT, it won't be activated by an LT order if you use the NCO skill and thus won't be kicked from a Fireteam. This is just about the only situation that I can come up with where this distinction is practically useful at the moment (Coordinated Orders are spent in a different way)
     
  16. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Interesting.

    The Order Expenditure Sequence says that the active player (1) declares which trooper will activate, then (2) spends the order he uses to activate the trooper. There's no mention of spending the Lt order "as an Lt order" or "as a regular order," you just spend it on a trooper who is capable of receiving it.

    It's far from certain, but my tentative reading would be that you declare "I'm activating this camo marker and spending my Lt order," and that's it.

    When using it on a fireteam you would say "I activate this fireteam with this NCO guy as team leader and spend my Lt order" which reveals that you must be using NCO even if you technically don't say so. If you instead spent it on the Lt you would say "I activate this trooper and spend my Lt order, which causes the trooper to leave the fireteam" which reveals that he's your Lt.
     
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  17. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Remember that Scots Guard and Hac Tao are the only two profiles with NCO and Camouflage at the moment.
    And Lt + NCO does not seem to exist (if i didn't miss something)

    I'm still sure enough that you don't need to state anything different from "I use the Lt Order with this Camo marer"
     
  18. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Lt + NCO does exist -
    upload_2020-10-30_21-45-39.png
    Probably others but this is the first my mind recalled.
     
  19. Ashtroboy

    Ashtroboy Well-Known Member

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    Indeed I’m totally new and would have no idea what possible LTs or NCOs there are in my chooses factions yet let alone other factions
     
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