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NCA Machinist in ANY Bolt Team

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by AdmiralJCJF, Dec 8, 2020.

  1. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Thank goodness!

    Now that it's confirmed that Machinist only in Bolt CORE was an error, what kind of Haris options is everyone thinking about running for NCA?

    This is tempting:

    BOLT Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)
    MACHINIST NCA (Bioimmunity, Veteran) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    SHONA CARANO Submachine Gun, Nanopulser(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    1.5 SWC | 70 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    As is this:

    BOLT Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)
    MACHINIST NCA (Bioimmunity, Veteran) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    BOLT Boarding Shotgun, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    1.5 SWC | 65 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Or this:

    BOLT Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)
    MACHINIST NCA (Bioimmunity, Veteran) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    BOLT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/M Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    1.5 SWC | 68 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    But it's also tempting to just kit out an Aquila with their own personal support team and go nuts:

    AQUILA FTO (Specialist Operative) MULTI Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 52)
    MACHINIST NCA (Bioimmunity, Veteran) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    BOLT (Paramedic) Combi Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    0 SWC | 92 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Surely someone else has fun ideas?!?
     
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  2. SpectralOwl

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    This one's what catches my attention:
    BOLT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/M Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 23)
    MACHINIST NCA (Bioimmunity, Veteran) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)

    1 SWC | 64 Points

    Relatively light on points and should be good at shoving the Bulleteer through a hostile midfield. The Bulleteer shoots and takes all the hits, the Bolt takes down pesky Hackers and drops Mines for defense, and the Machinist keeps the Bulleteer intact and handles dangerous situations for the Hackables.
     
  3. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    At this point I don't see a need for my Machinist to be part of a fire team. but you do have me re-thinking about it.
     
  4. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Might be an edge case but the Machinist can clear IMM and Isolated from hackers/REMs/HI, often with better chances than Reset, while being unhackable himself.

    You could throw a Bolt KHD into a repeater network, punk the enemy KHD with your superior burst, and any states applied by enemy HDs/HD+ you can engineer away, less useful if the enemy has multiple KHDs.
     
  5. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    To me, an unlinked Machinist used to have two jobs.

    1: Maintaining my Remote units

    2: Maintaining any TAG present

    Very occasionally he'd also support HI, but that was unusual and not the primary role I'm including him for.

    As I'm building N4 NCA lists I'm finding that I lean less and less into Remotes. First off there simply isn't the list space for a trio of Fugazi for orders and ARO (and Sniffer deployment/mobile repeater duty) so there are simply fewer Remotes to support. I'm also not leaning as heavily into a solo Bulleteer as my backup offensive option, because it requires investment in an EVO to be the aggressive unlinked option which my Fusilier Hacker used to be able to support.

    All of that is less true in TAG driven lists, as the (still) substantial investment of a TAG shapes the list in ways which make the solo Machinist a better choice. There tend to be fewer points and more slots available, and I'm likely to have an EVO already, so the Machinist ends up having a good pool of units to support.

    But, in general, there's more of a need for an embedded Engineer in aggressive Fireteams in N4, and thanks to linkable Bulleteers, ORCs and Aquila, there's more units than ever in those Fireteams for an Engineer to support. Overall I'm really liking the idea of a Machinist embedded in an aggressive Haris.

    I look forward to trying it out on the table.
     
    andre61 likes this.
  6. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    So! I have been working on a list and here it is

    Fast Assault Team
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    FUSILIER (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    FUSILIER (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 15)
    FUSILIER Missile Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 15)
    FUSILIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 17)
    SWISS GUARD Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 62)
    BULLETEER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 17)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    ORC MULTI Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
    MACHINIST NCA (Bioimmunity, Veteran) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    BOLT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/M Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 23)
    AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  7. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Bulleteer+Machinist+Bolt Haris would be the main reason in N4.
    Having the unhackable guy that can repair and fix the REM in the same Link on top of a Veteran Bolt.
    Budget Haris, pretty deadly and while Order hungry, quite resilient.
     
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  8. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I think flexibly linked Veteran Machinist is probably top 4 reasons to pick NCA over another Sectorial. The ability to repair Structure and clear a number of commonly-occurring game states, while also having some in-built immunity to those game states, is a really big deal. Factor in the cost that he's fairly cheap as link filler, can do some Classifieds, etc will make this guy a mainstay of NCA Haris teams, and by extension, a mainstay of NCA. I think NCA needs to lean heavily into Haris for most ITS missions... You need that ability to drag multiple tools into the midfield with a single Order spent... And the Machinist really brings a ton of utility to that 3-man team. The winner of last year's ITS season thought that this was such a big deal, it single-handedly transformed his opinion of NCA from "meh" to "a really interesting playable force."
     
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  9. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    I do think having a Machinist in a haris link team is great, and I would like to try It, just can't find room in a list that I like, as soon as I can find a list that I like it will be done, I like this topic, It's making re-think some things.
     
  10. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    Here's a list I would love to try. So. I added a Black Friar for for some camo hunting and keep the Pathfinder to help with enemy camo units.
    Fast Assault Team
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    FUSILIER (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    FUSILIER (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 15)
    FUSILIER Missile Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 15)
    FUSILIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 17)
    SWISS GUARD Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 62)
    BLACK FRIAR (Discover [+3], Albedo, Biometric Visor) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
    AUXILIA Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    ORC MULTI Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
    MACHINIST NCA (Bioimmunity, Veteran) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    BOLT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/M Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 23)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  11. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    I'm not convinced of the value of that much SWC tied up in Fusilier heavy weapons anymore. The HMG seems like a solid pocket investment (as always), and I can imagine taking either the Missile Launcher or the Sniper Rifle explicitly as a trap to lure opponents into engaging a Swiss Missile from a terrible position, but I'm not sure of their wider utility.

    As the Haris doesn't have access to NCO or Tactical Awareness to boost order efficiency I think it's best in the primary order group. Your Fusiliers (and attached elements) become a firebase from which the Haris will operate (and under whose shelter they will rest during the reactive turn).

    Something along these lines perhaps?


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    FUSILIER (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 18)
    FUSILIER (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 15)
    FUSILIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    ORC Feuerbach / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38)
    AQUILA FTO (Specialist Operative) MULTI Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 52)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 23)
    BOLT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/M Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    MACHINIST NCA (Bioimmunity, Veteran) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    GARUDA Tacbot Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 25)
    CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
    CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
    MULEBOT (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    6 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    I like the multiple options for the Core, and the Haris.
     
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  12. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    You are right about the Fusilier weapons team, and have been thinking about stopping the use of them, I like the list, and will try it one day.
     
  13. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Fusies are Hackers, Paramedics and LTs this edition. I'm not sure I'd put any gun in their hand other than a Combi.
     
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  14. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    I see your point, but I think that there is an argument for the HMG.

    It's still cheap enough, and there is utility enough for a vanilla BS 15 Burst 5 Damage 15 platform, even static.
     
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  15. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Thing is if you run a Fusilier Link you're gonna slot a HI in it, Orc or Aquila.
    Both of those can match the effectiveness of a Fusilier HMG even with lower Burst (and in the Aquila's case Rangebands).
    On the other side I find myself severly point starved to make those Swiss MLs, Aquila Guards and Orc FBs fit into a list so cuts have to be made. Fusilier SWC weapons seem a good place for those.

    The Fusilier HMG especially runs into the problem that a Bulleteer Spitfire Wildcard is tough competition and even in 24-32" the heavy MODs can handily keep up.
    Personally I found myself building a lot of lists with Orc HMG Lt. Now that he can go into the link and is secured by a FB ARO and CSUs he's the most secure Lt we have.
     
  16. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
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    The travesty of mixed links killed all LI heavy weapons, it's not even a contest.
     
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  17. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    I have no disagreement about the competition.

    It's a hard sell for SWC on Line Infantry now, even in a full Core. Even more so than in N3.

    But I think there is space for the Fusilier HMG as a cheap pocket asset no matter what else your Core includes.

    It's not something I will always reach for, but S4 is still enough of an issue in some terrain that it's not always going to be something I default to as a Fireteam component.
     
  18. Aetius80

    Aetius80 New Member

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    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1
    SWISS GUARD Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 62)
    AQUILA FTO (Specialist Operative) MULTI Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 52)
    SHONA CARANO Submachine Gun, Nanopulser(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    FUSILIER Missile Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 15)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle, Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 14)
    FUSILIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    TECH-BEE (Specialist Operative, Deactivator) Flash Pulse ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 5)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    BOLT Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)
    MACHINIST NCA (Bioimmunity, Veteran) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    BOLT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/M Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    AUXILIA (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 14)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I have found some decent success with this list. IMO bolts dont need the 5man to shoot like rockstars and this list brings a bunch of great s tier shooting.

    i appear to take comfort in the traditional list building practice of bringing both a doctor and an engineer in most lists i write. I wish machinists had a higher AVA.

    I used both the doctor and the paramedic successfully in my last game to keep my primary pieces in play. (paramedic change in n4 was biggest buff pano ever got).

    I don't mind spending the SWC on fusiliers, it makes the link more flexible and i would probably struggle to find better places for it in this list.
     
  19. AntipodeanBolt

    AntipodeanBolt Well-Known Member

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    Bolt's have Duo also now...so there's nothing stopping you from running a Hacker/Machinist duo just running around the battlefield
     
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