Hello! So I have a tournament coming up and I've been mulling over lists for that. For now I only have one, but I'd like opinions on it. It's based on excellent list used at least by Barakiel and has my modifications on how to answer all questions in ITS 10 Classified objectives. But the list first and my musings after that. Neoterran Capitaline Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18) FUSILIER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18) BIPANDRA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) SWISS GUARD HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 68) HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27) MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) GROUP 2 6 HEXA MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 32) AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army So the obvious question first. Bipandra, really? Yes, I think she might be the cheapest way to get a Veteran troop to the list. In essence you combine Trauma Doc and one line Fusilier for that. What I don't like is that she can't now use Palbot and obviously you sacrifice one order as well. Still as far as I'm concerned I've doctored my Fusiliers the most anyway so having her hanging out with them isn't so bad. Also I don't like that I have only one Auxilia. The Machinist takes the spot of second as I need both Engineer and D-Charges for classifieds. Having MSR on Fusiliers instead of ML is just personal preference for better looking model as well as a hint of superstition. Somehow my ML guy just ends up dead while that MSR has often been MP of the game. Also I'm surprised at how often she gets shot from that 16"-24" range where MSR is better. There are some minor changes that are easy to make but I'm not sure which options are better. You could make on Fusilier FO by dropping FO from Auxilia. You could upgrade specialist CSU to Trauma Doc by losing FO from Auxilia and even get her Palbot by going with ML on Fusiliers. You could instead get Warcor or even Techbee there with same changes. Or just upgrade that shotgun CSU to specialist as well. Also I'm little worried about my Datatracker situation. CSU is a good candidate if one happens to roll something like NWI or maybe better movement for those missions where Datatracker needs to go kill something. Maybe Auxilia could also do it in a pinch or one of the linked Fusiliers. Or even Bipandra? Also what would you suggest that I wield in the second list? I was thinking having Aquila HMG there for those Ariadna matches or if some other scenario really needs tough Datatracker. EDIT: One more question. Do you run those two CSUs as Duo or no?
Thanks for the shoutout, and I think this is a really good variation on what is (in my opinion) one of the best lists the game can offer. It's weird to be able to distill such a complex and personal experience like Infinity list building down to one or two strong lists, but I really do swear by that NCA list you mentioned. I really like what you've done here for expanding the list to work in Highly Classified. What are the other missions going to be? In missions where the Datatracker needs to go hunting, you probably do want a separate list to handle that role. HC is tough this year, it really stretches some sectorials thin to let them cover all the Classifieds.
I made one to discuss a couple of specific objectives in ITS 10 from NCAs viewpoint. This is my first attempt to build a list from that ground up. I edited the title to make it more clear. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for the praises! It's great to hear them straight from you as I'm still quite a novice in this sport while you Sir are already a legend. And indeed I find it quite a stretch to include tools to do everything in HC. Also there is just no redundancy at all on some roles. If Bipandra bites it you already lost on five outs, with Machinist it's three and so on and so forth. One of my considerations is what roles I should try to double. Second Doctor or Paramedic there or something. Other scenarios for this tournament are Comms Center (in which you also have to do three classified objectives) and Frostbyte. I think this list can do Comms Center quite well, but indeed I might want to have something else for Frostbyte. Have you had change to play it? What would you or others suggest? Maybe Aquila HMG for quite a tough Datatracker?
Yeah, that looks solid. I'd use that one spare point to upgrade the second CSU to the Rifle/Combi Specialist (it's such a gimme) and run them as a Duo MOST of the time (sometimes one will be fast and the other won't so it's less useful, but the order efficiency is usually worthwhile) except where you need to spread them out defensively to use Nanopulsers and Sixth Sense as back line defense. I almost wonder if it's not worth ditching one Fugazi so that you can pick up a PalBot for the Engineer, a Forward Observer upgrade for one of the Fusiliers and use the last three points for a WarCor. Given the Fusiliers are going to be moving around I think you are making the right call with the Multi Sniper over the Missile Launcher in the Fireteam. The better range bands are worth it here. But, yeah, for that mission you shouldn't do too badly with a list along these lines.
Thanks for the comments! Dropping one Fugazi for all that seems intriguing however I'm not sure what I'm using that Engineer Palbot for. To fix Pathfinder if it gets broken? With Warcor I could have the same ARO threat and use some of my Command Tokens to net the same amount of orders. Neat! Do you think it as liability when your lieutenant is quite obvious when there is only on regular Fusilier running around with no extra gear? Also the choice for CSUs is also dictated a bit by models. I have a sweet pair of Boarding Shotgun Bounty Hunter and Combirifle Druze to run around the table. However I'm tempted to change that Rifle/Light Shotgun CSU for Breaker Combi for those three points as that model is wielding Combirifle... I'm just sucker for WYSIWYG in that way. :D
So the tournament has Highly Classified, Comms Center and Frostbyte as its scenarios. I think I should run that Highly Classified list in Comms Center as well as there are those three personal Classified Objectives to score. However I'm thinking something completely different for my second list to use in Frostbyte. I reckon that you want strong Datatracker that can use that extra order. You need models that can go and kill enemy Datatracker and Specialists and you need someone to go to the middle and push buttons. So here: ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18) FUSILIER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18) AÏDA SWANSON 2 Submachine Gun, Viral Mines / Viral Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 24) BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) AQUILA HMG / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 62) SWISS GUARD Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 70) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 3 2 AUXILIA Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army The Aquile HMG will be Datatracker while Aida Swanson and Bulleteer are tasked to go hunting enemies. Swiss Guard Hacker is there to go and push buttons. And to do some killing himself in need be. I have dangerously low number of specialists, but that's not only a bad thing in this scenario. The Tech Bee there is the last resort if everything else fails and I need last turn button pusher. Would loved to have Pathfinder, but I'm not sure if it's good to sacrifice Fugazi, Tech Bee and Warcor for that... Opinions are highly appreciated!
This is a solid list with one, somewhat meta dependent, weakness. It has very weak deployment zone defense, with only one DTW, and no effective ARO presence vs smoke. This means that it is very vulnerable to aggressive first turn assault tactics, especially from Warbands. But if that's not a common issue in your meta then this list might be golden. The only other thing that it's missing is Sensor, and I'd seriously consider ditching the Warcor and Tech Bee in order to upgrade that first Fugazi to a Pathfinder (it will also give you another Forward Observer, which isn't a bad thing).
You make an excellent point about Sensor, I'll do the swap. Pathfinder is also faster button pusher than Tech Bee so there's that as well. I have Aquile and his auto-discovers, but using Sensor could be more cost efficient. I'm also thinking about swapping the second Fugazi with Boarding Shotgun CSU, with three points coming from either Fusiliers (MSR->ML) or Trauma Docs Palbot. That would give me one SS1 DTW more. And if I'm lucky with Metachemistry roll fast or durable hunter killer piece as well. I'm also somewhat interested by Multi-rifle Black Friar. He would have that MSV2 and also Biometric Visor L1 if I hit any Impersonators. I'm just struggling to justify his point cost. Maybe him instead of Aida Swanson? But then again Black Friar is slower...
Yeah, Aquila are good but order intensive if you hit real Camo-spam and zero help against Hidden Deployment. You pretty much always want Sensor somewhere. The CSU is the best backline defense that NCA gets, as long as you pick a profile with a Nanopulser. That and Sixth Sense makes for a unit as effective as a mine (but with slightly different traits). And for a defensive fireteam with little incentive for moving up the table I'd go with Missile Launcher over Multi Sniper anyway, personally. I'd try the list with Aida and with the Black Friar. I think the latter is a BIG winner from the ITS 10 deployment advantage. But they are super different pieces with very different roles, so try each and see which one gels better for you. I don't think that the rest of the list really suggests one or the other, except that Aida is your only "rapid assault" forward unit (but that's a role NCA often misses out on, so that doesn't worry me too much).
CSUs cannot form duos in NCA because duo is not listed as a valid fireteam on their sectorial army list.
The more I look at Aida, the more she seems like a budget alternative to the Locust BSG and not even a bad one. With Scanveger you can also count her has half a Specialist and I'd bet most opponents will not see that coming. I really like her as an answer to HC. Not a great one, but pretty good considering we're talking about NCA. That said NCA still has the usual Problem of Hacking that only a Hexa can solve. (Unless you're playing against a zero Hacking lineup. And in HC, even Tohaa might run Aelis). I wouldn't say the Swiss AHD is bad, but personally I'd rethink if I want one without a KHD. You can go for Hacking supremacy yourself, HC usually means one of everything, even Nomads or Aleph will be a bit lighter on the Infowar stuff. With NCA being mostly DZ based, 6-6 Fugazi can also go a long way to get some Repeaters up the field. As we're PanO and stuck at WIP13 without Upgrade Programs you'll also want to get the Firewall that comes along with Hacking through a Repeater. While KHDs ignore it, most of the heavy hitters like Anathematic, Interventor, Asura or Danavas don't. The only reason I can see to run Bipandra is to get one spare member for a double SWC weapon Fusilier Link. Putting her in a 5 Man Link without spares is just so much worse than running 5 Fusiliers+Trauma Doc. With Spec fire and gunners with Mobility skills on the rise, as well as the ever present threat of Superior Infiltration and Impersonation I often don't deploy the Fusiliers in a Link. For ITS10 could be worth it to degrade Fusiliers to nothing but cheerleaders and explore lists without the usual Core. Heck I might be running solo Bolt Spitfires or 3 man Cores just to deal with Mutts.
Yeah, I really like CSUs. But I like Auxilia also. The point is I'm not sure whether I'm ready to give up my only Auxilia for that second CSU. What do you think is better? One Auxilia + one CSU or two CSUs? And yes, I took another look at Black Friar and I'm interested. I threw one on the list down. Really? Well that's a bummer and also quite annoying feature in the Army. It would be much cleaner if that CSU didn't have Duo in it's profile... Yeah I'm interested to try Aida out. With that Scavenger she can potentially do some very dirty things. Taking something like Assault Hacking Device seems good. And yes, I agree on that Hexa. Maybe investing on Swiss Guard AHD with not backup is overkill. Bipandra is there strictly to be Veteran if HC requires it. I agree that Fusi + Trauma Doc would be better, but I just don't see any way to fit both an Elite or Veteran trooper and Trauma Doc there. Bipandra can both doctor and do some net undermining if needed. And as said, I usually only doctor my Fusiliers anyway. I'm strange like that. :D Also I'm not willing to give up on Fusilier link just yet. It just seems so very efficient for it's points.
After reviewing your feedback I've come up with another version of that Frostbyte list. I ditched the Swiss Guard for Hexa KHD and Black Friar and also I put Fusilier Hacker there to buff that Bulleteer and also Pathfinder to do some sensoring although I had to lose all the Fugazi for it. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18) FUSILIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18) FUSILIER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18) AQUILA HMG / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 62) HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27) AÏDA SWANSON 2 Submachine Gun, Viral Mines / Viral Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 24) BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) GROUP 2 4 1 BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) AUXILIA Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army I have one point floating around, but I'm not interested in upgrading either that CSU or Auxilia to specialist as they are then vulnerable to providing points to my enemy from killing them. The strategy now is to use Bulleteer, Aida and Black Friar go up the board and shoot things while Hexa KHD or Datatracker Aquila go to push buttons as needed. Any thoughts on this? Better that the first Frostbyte list? Or worse?
Hang on, @ijw might be able to clear this up. CSU Duo in NCA, yes or no? Because that makes a pretty big difference to the Auxilia + Auxbot and CSU vs 2 x CSU choice. The Duo probably makes the latter better, 'though the potential for HFW + Combi fire from the Auxilia makes it a little better in some circumstances (as does double Discover etc). But either way, this is a solid list. I say get out and throw it down on a table.
I've asked for official clarification before and got complete silence. Until it's listed on the army chart, it's not legal.
What nonsense. Duo has been on CSU for ages now, and niether of the sectorials with CSU have Duo listed for CSU. O.S.S seems to have it though :/
So another PDF vs army builder case? Cool, can we just effing finally settle this once and for all? Deva AHD is legal to run in NCA according to the PDF, but Koni says no on the Warcor forums, which is nice but inaccessible to us plebs. Then for the CSU, the Profiles have Duo in ISS/NCA and suddenly the PDF is right again? This is not about how this affects me as a player of those Factions, I obviously would like the Devas and the CSU Duo. But can we just have something that can be considered the master reference in case of a dispute? Go make a Patreon for support of the army builder if money is the issue. I'm sure people are happy to contribute if money is the issue. @Chade Fusilier Hacker in a 5 man Link with ARO pieces is something I strongly advise against. Just a Prone HMG on a roof for counterattacks should be fine for that one. Sniper/ML for AROs and Hacker make the Link very clunky to use.
Well according to my question here CSUs can't Duo. So that's that for now I guess. @Teslarod Interesting to hear your opinion on Fusilier links. My experience has been that that MSR Fusilier has been one of my MVPs often being very annoying to remove ARO piece. And my links usually don't want to move in first turn anyways as other models burn the orders. Do you usually run without ARO pieces altogether or do you use something different as your ARO pieces?
Nah, I meant to say the ARO pieces and the Hacker are mutually exclusive. I don't run the Hacker very often outside of MO or Vanilla and I never run him with the Link. The main reason to have him around is to buff a Remotes with MMSL2. To do that you have to Activate the entire Link, which leads to a bunch of problems, mainly unopposed AROs on your heavy weapons. So you have to either rule out that possibility or break the Link to buff Remotes. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18) FUSILIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18) FUSILIER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18) AQUILA HMG / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 62) HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27) AÏDA SWANSON 2 Submachine Gun, Viral Mines / Viral Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 24) BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) GROUP 2 4 1 BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) AUXILIA Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army At some point you also need to consider how many points you want to spend on utility and how many you want to spend on Orders. In your case I'd drop Aida and the Hacker/MSR for a combination of Pathfinders, Fugazi and Mulebots no questions asked. That gives you 2-3 extra Orders in exchange for a tertiary attack piece and a secondary additon to the Link. Another reason for that is that I value having 3 Fusiliers that can be the Lt. 2 is a cointoss to go after, 3 makes the odds significantly lower to simply guess right. After that I'd want the Bulleteer and Fusiliers in Group 2. Bulleteers tend to die an early death and I wouldn't want Fusiliers and Bulleteer to cannibalize the Aquila's Orders as they are all your long range potential. Alternatively you can keep Aida and drop the Bulleteer, but the Combat Remote is fast, can punch at range and brings a heavy VIS MOD, something the rest of your list can't replace. Blackfriar and Aida are pretty similar to each other compared to that.
