1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Naffatun seems to be out of a job.

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by WWHSD, Jan 4, 2021.

  1. WWHSD

    WWHSD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    79
    I’m looking at the 12 point Naffatun with the Rifle + Light Flamethrower, and Grenades. and trying to figure out why I’d ever take them over either an 11 or 12 point Ghulam with the Rifle + Light Shotgun.

    The changes to Light Shotguns seem to make them almost always a better tool for the job than the Light Flamethrower. The higher burst and the ability to do a direct shot with +6BS at close range seems to beat out Intuitive Attack and Continuous Damage in most situations.

    Maybe I’m undervaluing the Grenades in the profile but I’m having a hard time getting excited about them on a PH10 trooper. If they were Smoke Grenades instead that seems like they’d give the Light Flamethrower Naffatun a niche.

    The 13 point Naffatun with the Heavy Flamethrower seems like he at least still has some space due to being able to lay down the large teardrop template but it still almost seems like you might have to be trying to find a reason to include a Naffatun before you’d actually bring one.

    Do Flamethrowers in general just need a little bit of a rework?
     
    sackofowls likes this.
  2. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,254
    Likes Received:
    1,268
    I'm going to wedge one or two my next list for this Friday.
     
  3. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    4,191
    Of Haqq's stable, I play hassassins and vanilla. I take ghulam in hassassins because that fireteam rocks, but in vanilla I can't ever fit either ghulam of naffatun; there just aren't the combat group slots for cheerleader troops any more. Everything in a list is there to do something more than just guard a corner with a DTW.
     
    Hachiman Taro and Xeurian like this.
  4. KwarkyMats

    KwarkyMats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    177
    Flamethrowers got kinda nerfed, they (and other flame carrying weapons) can't burn off ODD/TO any more, which made Naffatun great against Achilles and similar hard to hit troops.
    I think the HFT Naffatun is still fine, because of the larger template. They are facing internal competition with Ghulam now yeah. I would like for Naffatun to get either continuous damage grenades or a light rocket launcher. I think that would give them some spicy variation and reasons to pick.
     
    Zsimbi, AssaultUnicorn and grampyseer like this.
  5. HotFreshTofu

    HotFreshTofu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    339
    I am definitely not including Naffatun as much as before, but I run 1 HFT naffatun occasionally, depending on the mission. The HFT is way more dangerous than a ghulam LSG. When someone takes LSG template, they know with confidence they can survive if they have 2W, or effective 2W.

    But against a HFT, that is not certain. It forces the active player to consider the risks more. The larger template also helps quite a bit with both range and dealing with link teams.

    Naffatun are not bad at all, but with 15 slots it can be hard to find a place for them. This has happened to me with Ghazi as well. I just do not use them anymore because I need Daylami and Zuleyka in every vanilla list. Would I prefer 2 ghazi to a single naffatun or ghulam? yep. can we take more than 15 models? nope.

    so, the Naffatun has its role filling in 13 points that you have nothing better to spend on, or upgrading a kameel if you have a few left over points. That kind of thing.
     
    AssaultUnicorn likes this.
  6. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    3,456
    That's true. In the reactive turn, against an arm 4 HI, an HFT hit has a 25% chance to do two wounds. That's way too big a risk for the opponent to take.

    In N3 vanilla, I always found the Naffatun's biggest competitor was the Krakot. For one extra point, you lose the fire ammo but gain forward deployment which greatly increases the number of corners you can guard. Plus all the Krakot's other wonderful skills. I did take Naffatuns in N3, but only after maxing Krakot AVA.

    Krakot corner guards are looking even better in N4 with reactive turn dodging.
     
  7. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    1,674
    From the start of N4 I was wondering who came up with this idea to make Ghulam cheaper than Naffatun and why, when the shotguns got rather better, and the flamethrowers definitely worse.
    :|
    There was a time in earlier editions, when Naffatun with LFT costed 10 pts, IIRC. Good times.
    Then CB gave them Grenades in N3, better BS and better PH than Ghulam, and priced both for 12 pts, which, with a new LT profile for Naffs, made me use them much more. And I was happy.

    And now... I don't understand the change. Some people try to defend it by saying, how fire is better than shotgun, but no, that's not entirely true, as shotguns can now put two direct templates. And fire lost the important option to burn ODD, making those fugly Avatars/Achilleses and other even better.

    For me it's a mistake in design. The two cheapest, regular line infantry troopers should cost the same.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
    toadchild likes this.
  8. theomc

    theomc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2019
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    169
    The biggest problem I see (for the Naffatun) is the LSG's psychological/flexibility factor. I move my Ghulam within 8", what's your ARO?
    You shoot? Then I'll take two shots at +6.
    You dodge? Then I'll just double-template you.
    You wanna cry? Then I'll give you a minute.
     
    Cadwallon, WarHound and Grotnib like this.
  9. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    3,456
    Oh, in the active turn the LSG is dramatically better than a flamethrower. It's not even close. There's the hit/template option, as you say, but even without that, hitting with two normal templates is just much stronger than hitting with one fire template. Forcing two saves is much more likely to cause a wound, vs. one save and then a second only if the first is failed.

    The advantage of the flamethrower is in the reactive turn, where they are both just B1. So they each force one save, but the flamethrower has the possibility of a second save as well.
     
    Grotnib likes this.
  10. theomc

    theomc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2019
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    169
    True, but the LSG has (some) advantage in ARO too, since you can choose a +6 BS or template ARO based on who's taking the active shot...
     
  11. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    145
    It's not just in comparison to Naffatun. The rifle+light shotgun Rafiq and Kameel are 1 point cheaper than the PanO and Yu Jing equivalents, despite being much more versatile.

    As for Naffatun, I have to agree with QueensGambit. If you want a cheap model to cover a corner or protect a team at short ranges, the Naffatun is quite a bit scarier. You do lose the option to shoot at +6, but outside of a fireteam, a lot a attack pieces will run right over you.
     
  12. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    I can see the justification for the HFT one, but the 12 point LFT really needs a reason. It is at an awkward place as IMO, grenades, BTS and the LFT are not enough to choose over an FO ghulam that flash pulses at 14s in cover and is a specialist.
     
    Xeurian likes this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation