What happens if you shoot at the Camo Token of a mine with MSV3 and the discovered mine would be in Total Cover?
I am pretty sure no one thought of that when changing MSV3, because their beta testers are potatoes. My guess is you inform MSV3 shooter he just performed idle, because he cannot complete that action. If he is smart he will understand it is a mine, but it doesn't get discovered.
MSV-3 allows to shoot Camomarkers without discovering them first. As of now I would say that the shot discovered the Marker but Mine takes no damage as there is no possibility to hit the Mine itself. But that is just how I would play it
Ah, I forgot mines have a Silhouette of 0 when discovered. But they don't when they're in camo. So long as it's camouflaged, it has a silhouette of 2. So I believe, weirdly, that the BS Attack is successful. Note the mine isn't discovered yet. Shooting with MSV3 doesn't discover it as per the MSV3 rules, and until it meets one of the cancellation clauses for camo, it remains in camo.
RAW, it is. Discover + BS Attack are two individual short skills. Not this. Even though I'm pretty sure it'll back FAQed accordingly.
Discover is a basic short skill so it can be declared first. But in principle, the effect is the same, one short skill, a basic and a short skill the effect is the same Mine is "discovered" and cannot be shot at. Nothing has changed in this interaction since 1st edition.
We are not talking about "principles", we are talking about rules... ;) The MSV3 rules says it is possible to make an attack without the need for a discover roll. There is no Discover here. RAW, the camo marker is not discovered. The wording is poor and should be FAQed.
That’s my understanding. If you shoot at a Camo Marker with MSV 3 and you miss all shots, the Marker is not revealed cause it hasn’t to make a roll. If the intention was, that BS-Attack from MSV3 should work like Discover and BS-Attack then the wording is misleading.
You declare the attack, make the rolls, your opponent tells you that the shots had no effect and no saving roll was required, you conclude that there's a 3mm tall mine token under the camo marker, you get on with the game?
@Child9 I think you do not understand what I answer to. The question is "what happens when the MSV 3 trooper tries to shoot a mine and finds out the mine is behind a wall and cannot be seen" and the answer is "the same thing that happens with discover and shoot for 4 editions now, nothing has changed". As far as MSV 3 regaining its 1st-2nd edition abilities back, its more or less what it was back then just a bit more difficult, you shoot the unit, if the unit is hit it is revealed, if not it remains in marker state.
This is really only relevant in terms of whether the MSV3 shooter declares BS Attack with no effect, or declares BS Attack and then that becomes an involuntary Idle. The deciding factor is whether the camo marker is a valid "target" per the second requirement of BS Attack. A - If the camo marker is not a valid target, only the mine token underneath is a valid target, then the MSV3 trooper has no LoF to the target and the BS Attack becomes an Idle. B - If the camo marker is a valid target, the BS Attack happens (and consumes disposable uses if applicable) but camo markers cannot make saves, only the things under them, so no saving roll occurs. None of the conditions for cancelling the camouflaged state are met, so nothing else happens. I think A is the technically correct result, but for most cases they're functionally identical outcomes.
You do not See you do not, I replied to posts 2 and 4 not to any rules question. As far as rules go 4 editions of the game have clearly established what happens if you try to discover and shoot a mine behind a chest high wall, and this is no different, if in the end it needs a FAQ it will be done.
@psychoticstorm Sorry, I'm confused. You didn't answer any rules question? Really? What section of the forum is it then? Also, what's that? That's right, rules answers. But as you said yourself, you cannot point out which part of the rulebook says so, because the rule is poorly written. And yes, it needs to be FAQed because nothing describes this interaction at the moment.
No, it isn’t the same. You don’t discover the Camo Marker with MSV3 And I f there is no saving throw, there is no cancellation of the market state. Therefore the question is, do you attack the camo marker and therefore can even destroy it or not. There’s a loophole in the rules at this point. If there was a rule in N1 and N2 I don’t know them cause I started with N3.
Its almost the same rules as 1st and second edition, without the oppressive "Aquilla sees camouflage so tell me what it is". As I said if it needs a FAQ it will get it.
