Infinity Gamer has made a series of two videos aimed at reflecting on how the Climbing Plus rule (formerly known as Escalader Plus) works in Infinity N5 and its implications, here are the videos as well as full article versions that I've reviewed, as well as summaries fastranslated of what was said in comments under each video. Exploring the MASSIVE changes to Climbing Plus in N5 Climbing Plus Evolution: N5 changes and tactical impacts. Has Climbing Plus been hit by a Nerf bat? We take our first deep dive into some of the changes to Climbing Plus in N5 with the standardization of climbing distances and its effects on shooting team strategies. 00:00 Introduction to Climbing Plus in N5 00:06 Fundamental changes in Climbing Plus 00:33 Impact on specific troops 01:09 Escalade Plus in shooting teams 02:25 Tactical and strategic implications 02:46 Adapting to the new rules 03:46 Conclusion and community feedback Summary by aleph's sub-ai ### Introduction to Climbing Plus in N5 Hello everyone, it's Infin Gamer. Today we're going to explore the Climbing Plus rule in depth, how it transformed Fifth Edition (M5) and what it means for fireteams. ### Fundamental changes in Climbing Plus Let's start with a fundamental change in N4: if your troop had Climbing Plus, it used its first movement value to climb. For example, a troop with a movement of 4-4 would climb 4 inches. However, in N5, this rule has been standardized. Now, regardless of your troop's movement value, Climbing Plus always allows a 6-inch climb. This simplifies the rule and makes it easier to remember. However, this change is not without compromises. Take the Roadbot, for example. It has an 8-4 movement and Climbing Plus, which was excellent in the N4. It could use Climbing Plus to move 8 inches, giving it great versatility. However, in the N5, this capability is reduced to 6 inches, which may seem less impressive. ### Climbing Plus with Fireteams When a troop with Climbing Plus is in a Fireteam and declares a climbing action, something unexpected happens: other members without Climbing Plus are left with less optimal choices, making the “do nothing at all” option rather attractive. Climbing Plus transforms the Climb skill, normally a long skill, into a basic short skill. However, when a Fireteam declares a movement skill, all members must be able to perform it or declare an Idle action. Regular members without Climbing Plus only have access to the long version of the Climb skill when declared by the Fireteam leader. The rules explain in more detail how Climbing Plus works in a Fireteam situation. When Fireteams need to coordinate their orders to overcome an obstacle, they declare Climb as the first skill in the order. Troops with the special Climbing Plus skill can declare Climb as a basic short skill, while other troops have the choice of declaring Climb as a long skill or declaring an Idle action for the second skill of the order. Troops that have declared Idle or Climb as a basic short skill can then declare a second basic short skill or a normal short skill. On the other hand, troops who have declared Climb as a long skill have already declared their entire order and cannot declare a second skill. This rule interaction is significant and influences Fireteam dynamics. ### Tactical and strategic implications When planning your combat compositions, it's crucial to consider whether vertical mobility is essential to your strategy. You need to assess whether splitting up the Fireteam for climbing maneuvers is worth the trade-off, or how to position troops with different movement capabilities. Some players adapt by keeping troops with Climbing Plus separate from their Fireteams, or by creating Fireteams specialized in climbing. Another option is simply to work with the restriction: make the Fireteam leader a Climbing Plus unit. For example, in a Bushi Tao Fireteam, the Jizsamurai becomes the leader, climbs to the roof and engages the enemy in close combat, while the other members remain at the base of the building. This situation is similar to that of Super Jump in N4, where troops without this skill remained inactive. For those accustomed to using units with Super Jump in their Fireteams, this won't be a major change. However, if you were using Climbing Plus and expected everyone to move as normal, this may take some getting used to. ### Conclusion and community feedback While some would prefer to see troops without these special skills move normally, at least we know how the rule works in N5 and we can all play by the same rules. So, what do you think? Do you think this change is a step towards unification, aligning Climbing Plus with Super Jump, a similar movement bonus skill, or do you think it adds unnecessary complexity? Let me know your thoughts in the comments below, and I'll be back soon with more videos. ### Community reactions to Climbing Plus changes Community reaction to the changes to Climbing Plus in N5 has been mixed. Some players have expressed disappointment that the changes render Climbing Plus (C+) almost useless. One of the main points of frustration is that troops must now be in contact with the wall before they can declare a short climbing skill, which reduces the effectiveness of orders and maneuverability on vertical surfaces. This means that a unit located 1 inch from a 3-inch building has to spend two orders to reach the top, which is perceived as a regression from the previous fluidity of movement. In addition, some players feel that having to stop at the base of a building to climb detracts from the game experience, making Climbing Plus more restrictive than advantageous. This new rule is seen as a source of confusion and complexity, especially for players who enjoyed the vertical aspect of the game. The need to remember this rule and integrate it into Fireteams' strategies is seen as an additional constraint. Another problem raised was that, according to the current wording, a unit using Climb can no longer reach a horizontal surface. The rule states that the Climb movement only allows movement on a vertical surface, with at least half the base in contact with that surface. This makes it impossible to stop on a horizontal surface if half the base must remain in contact with the vertical surface, which is in contradiction with the N4 rules. Another aspect criticized is the dynamics of Fireteams. Some players suggest that if the leader of a Fireteam declares a basic short move skill, the other members should be able to declare any short move skill available to them. This would allow, for example, a Su Jian to jump while his teammates on the ground could still move, a solution that seems more intuitive to many. However, some players see positive aspects in these changes. For example, team members without a C+ can still climb as a long skill, which offers some flexibility. Nevertheless, the need to stop at the base of a building to climb, then spend two orders to climb and shoot, is seen as a major drawback. Other comments pointed out that in N4, team members could simply move around while the leader climbed, offering greater fluidity. With the new rules, although everyone can climb, they can't make a move followed by another move, except for the one with the specific skill. This limits strategies, especially for units like Fiddler and the Uberfall Kommandos, which are particularly affected by these changes. Some players hope that these inconsistencies will be clarified in future videos or rules updates. The community agrees that the 6-inch distance for Climbing Plus seems arbitrary and highly dependent on the scenery. In addition, the impossibility of gaining cover while climbing is seen as a strange and unappealing change. In short, while some players hope these changes are a mistake or can be adjusted, others are adapting by modifying their strategies, for example by splitting Fireteams to cover more scenery or accomplish specific objectives. The community remains divided on the impact of these changes, with some finding them unnecessarily complex and less fun, while others are looking for ways to take advantage of the new rules.
Climbing Plus is so much worse - and why that might mean we're all playing backwards Why Climbing Plus in N5 is so much worse than you think - and why it might mean you're all playing it wrong... We've had a first look at the changes to Climbing Plus in the new edition of Infinity (N5) and the impact they have on gameplay, particularly in the context of fireteams. This video clarifies the changes to Escalade Plus, which make it a different and often slower skill to use. Join me to find out how the rule changes may have penalized some units, making maneuvering through vertical structures difficult. Don't forget to share your thoughts in the comments and discover the views of other experienced players. 00:00 Introduction to Climbing Plus issues 00:39 Initial observations and comments from the community 01:18 Detailed analysis of Climbing Plus mechanisms 01:44 Practical examples and demonstrations 03:12 Personal opinions and community feedback 04:32 Speculation and developer intentions 05:21 The rule I missed Summary by aleph's sub-ai ### Introduction to Climbing Plus Problems Hello everyone, this is Infinity. I'm going to explain why the Climbing Plus rule is much worse than I originally thought. Recently, I posted a video where I talked about how Climbing Plus was significantly changed from N4 to N5 edition, particularly in the context of fireteams. The restructuring of the rules, which is more in line with how Super Jump works, makes it difficult to manage a unit with Climbing Plus within a fireteam. This limits the ability to maximize fireteam movement, as was possible in N4. ### Initial comments and feedback from the community Several people have made pertinent remarks in the comments, highlighting points I missed when I first read the rule. One of the major points is that Climbing Plus is now slower than before. Although Climbing Plus has been improved to give 6-inch movement to units with a 4-inch movement skill, some units have been weakened as they go from 8 inches to 6 inches. In addition, the rule change means that climbing is no longer considered a movement but an action of climbing, which may require two to three orders to accomplish what you want to do with a Climbing Plus unit. ### Detailed analysis of Climbing Plus mechanics Let's take a non-fireteam example: an individual unit with Climbing Plus. This unit has several basic skills (Move, Idle, Discover), including movement on a horizontal surface. When a unit decides to climb, this becomes a new skill separate from movement. If a unit moves to a building and decides to climb, it must spend a new order or declare a new skill to do so. This means that the unit can spend its first order to move to the foot of the building, then a second order to climb the vertical surface. If the building is only 3“ high, the unit will use only 3” of its 6” movement, then have to spend another order to move horizontally once at the top. ### Practical examples and demonstrations Let's step outside the fireteam context for a moment. When a unit with Climbing Plus moves to a building and decides to climb, it must spend a new order or declare a new skill to do so. Here's how it works: 1. **Initial Move**: The unit uses its first order to move to the foot of the building. At this point, it stops. 2. **Climb Vertical Surface**: To climb, the unit declares a Climbing skill, which is a short skill thanks to Climbing Plus (not a long skill). This allows the unit to climb the vertical surface. 3. **Movement Limitation**: If the building is only 3“ high, the unit will use only 3” of its 6” movement to reach the top. Once at the top, the unit stops again. 4. **Horizontal movement**: To continue moving horizontally after climbing, the unit must spend a new order. This means that movement is not fluid, as each change of direction or type of movement requires a new order. In an example from the previous video, I misinterpreted the rule to mean that a unit could continue moving after climbing without spending new orders. In reality, the unit must stop after each climbing action and spend a new order to continue moving horizontally. This process is very cumbersome and limits the fluidity of movement, which is contrary to the idea that Climbing Plus units should be fast and efficient at climbing and moving over surfaces. ### Personal Opinions and Community Feedback I find this new Climbing Plus mechanic very cumbersome and I don't like it at all. In my opinion, units with Climbing Plus should be fast and excellent at climbing and moving on surfaces, better than any other unit. Some might argue that not having to spend a long skill to climb, but only a short skill, is an advantage. However, I think we may have been spoiled by the N4 edition rules, where Climbing Plus treated climbing on a vertical surface in the same way as horizontal movement. This allowed units to move smoothly and efficiently. With the new N5 rules, not only do the initial problems persist, but the need to declare a new skill to climb makes movement even more complicated. You have to stop the horizontal movement, then switch to a vertical movement, and finally back to a horizontal movement, which requires a new skill. This separation of movements is, in my opinion, very problematic. Some players have expressed in the comments that they prefer to continue using the N4 rules, as the N5 changes seem too restrictive. Climbing Plus is a skill widely available in many fireteams and units, which makes these changes even more frustrating. Some players find the new rules nonsensical and prefer to revert to the old, more fluid and intuitive mechanics. ### Speculation and Developer Intentions I wonder what Corvus Belli had in mind with these changes. Perhaps they thought Climbing Plus was too powerful, or were responding to complaints from the community. It's possible that they wanted to revert to an earlier version of the rule, as in N2 or N3, but that remains speculative. I'd love to hear your thoughts on these changes and whether you think Climbing Plus is now in a good place or not. ### The Rule I Missed I'd like to thank everyone who shared their comments, as they provide a wealth of knowledge. Thanks to all of you for raising these points, which enabled me to make this video clarifying how Climbing Plus is actually much worse than I initially thought. Feel free to share your thoughts in the comments: do you agree with me, or do you think Climbing Plus is now well-balanced? I'll be back soon with a new video. ### Community feedback and discussion Player feedback shows a diversity of opinions and interpretations regarding the changes to the Climbing Plus rule in Infinity N5 edition. **Rule clarifications:** - Several players point out that the transition from vertical to horizontal movement does not require a new order. The transition to horizontal is included in the 6 inches of climbing movement, according to the examples in the rulebook. It is therefore not necessary to stop at the top of the building to spend a new order. **Comparison with previous editions:** - When comparing with the N3 edition, some players note that the current Climbing Plus rule works in a similar way to the old one, where climbing was a short skill. However, the examples in the N3 rulebook showed units moving fluidly horizontally and then vertically, which is different from the current interpretation. **Criticisms and suggestions:** - Some players think that Corvus Belli has complicated the rule by setting climbing and jumping to fixed values of 6 inches, rather than basing them on the unit's MOV value. One suggestion would be to remove climbing as a separate skill and simply double the MOV cost for vertical movements, with Climbing Plus ignoring this cost. - Other players feel that the changes are intended to limit the mobility of units with Climbing Plus, differentiating them from units with Super Jump, which remain highly mobile. This could be a way of balancing the game by making tactical choices more thoughtful. **Interpretations and debates:** - There's a debate about interrupting short actions. Some players believe that short actions can be interrupted by other short actions, allowing horizontal movement and climbing to be combined. However, others argue that, according to the order expenditure sequence, a skill must be completed before declaring a new one. - One player mentions that using Climbing Plus allows actions such as dodging during a climb, but not combining climbing and horizontal movement, which limits the fluidity of movement. **Positive outlook:** - Some players appreciate the changes made to Climbing Plus, believing they bring a better balance to the game. They feel the changes encourage more strategic use of buildings and advantageous positions, rather than allowing excessive mobility. **Conclusion:** - The discussions show an active and engaged community, with varied opinions on the Climbing Plus rule changes. While some players find the changes problematic, others see them as an improvement for the game's balance and strategy.
