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N4 Tactica, IA or WB?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Greysturm, Sep 30, 2020.

?

Which tactica to start?

Poll closed Oct 7, 2020.
  1. Feels like you can take on the world in there, doesn't it? (Invincible Army)

    35.6%
  2. Check your priviledge! (White Banner)

    30.5%
  3. I am the Law! (Imperial Service)

    15.3%
  4. Fireteams are too complicated (Vanilla)

    18.6%
  1. Greysturm

    Greysturm Invincible Army Drill Sergeant/Military Theorist

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    Hi guys,

    I am thinking of starting basic tacticas for N4 in the style of my N3 invincible army one, which one would you like to see or think it would be more usefull to the community?
     
    Usashi likes this.
  2. Cheshirrre

    Cheshirrre New Member

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    I think we need a White Banner tactica.
    WB playstyle are different then IA or ISS. It will be more useful for newcomers from Code One and our community.
     
    Paegis likes this.
  3. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible Officer

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    I think I agree with Cheshirrre. ISS and IA (despite some fantastic fireteam upgrades) are more or less known quantities. I think a WB or Vanilla tactica would benefit the community the most.
     
  4. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    WB is the closest sectorial to vanilla. has very good single pieces, camos and plays mindgames. It's probably the best candidate to start sectorials after kaldstrom

    ISS is in good shape. That wildcards inside the kuangshi farm seem interesting. It is better equiped for area denial with kanrens, zhanying and pheasant, has anti camo tools, and works well around Smoking combo and CC

    Invincible is more built towards nob frustration in this edition. Hacking and CC that are going wild in N4 are 2 of the major weakspots of invincible. It doesn't have too much of a safety network, area denial and board control... It's main assets are expensive etc...
     
  5. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    I think each subfaction has gained enough new life to it that they're all worthy of some serious exploration. I still think White Banner is a hot mess, but not without its merits.

    I think it might be better to start with a slow burn vanilla tactica. Focus on one trooper over a period of time, analyze it within vanilla and its respective sectorials over the course of a week with player discourse and discussion, and then add it to the board and move on to the next. Trying to do a faction wholesale sounds like a dubious endeavour.
     
  6. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible Officer

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    Just wanted to add, having a tactica for YJ would be fantastic in general. When I started a year ago, the only one I could really find was the one off 1d4chan.
     
  7. Sedral

    Sedral White Banner Officier

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    I think what yu-jing could use overall is a tactica about hacking. We're the most hackable faction in the human sphere so we need an answer to it, but we might also be able to capitalize on the abundance of tinbot -6 in our sectorials to become a scary hacking threat on our own.
     
    Paegis likes this.
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Besides inaccessible Repeaters, I can't agree that the challenges that IA face are insurmountable. They are more of the type I'd classify as interesting gameplay challenges.
     
  9. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    I voted for White Banner because I'm having a lot of trouble making lists with it.
     
  10. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    Doing IA lists is harder believe me. It's a constant struggle with the points. You're constantly forced to introduce crappier units, downgrading options and taking out the juice. Even after the update, the backbone of the list didn't change much. zuyongs cost the same, taishen cost the same, zenchas cost the same, liuxing costs the same, hulangs cost the same, daoying slightly increase, haidao slightly decrease,... the ones that were more favoured are the powerhouses: shangji, yanhuo, guijia and mowang.
     
    #10 Mc_Clane, Oct 1, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
  11. unbefugt

    unbefugt New Member

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    I'm a bit biased because I picked up ISS for the start of N4 and would love to get some up-to-date input on it. Still, I think the forum as a whole would benefit most from a WBA tactica.
     
  12. bloodstone

    bloodstone Member

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    Wait
    Zuyong are 1-3 points cheaper
    Tai sheng 45/49 --> 39/44. And she is a wildcard now
    Zencha got shock immunity which is huge
    Liu Xing are 1-3 cheaper except for the shotgun, and got courage and +2 PH for the jump (lost bio immunity though). These 10% are worth the trade
    Hulang are really different. Cheap profile, koalas with minelayer, ODD. They are way better! And he's a wildcard too!

    IA seems much better to me now. The Pangguling being cheaper is also a boon for them.
     
    Chaserabinov likes this.
  13. det

    det Member

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    I add my "vote" for WB...the other 2 were already in the game years ago.
     
  14. Sedral

    Sedral White Banner Officier

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    On IA point cost, keep in mind that the loss of free hackbuff on the daoying s a very big deal for a lot of build. If you want fairy dust, controlled jump for your liu xing or assisted fire on your luduan/rui shi you need to pay 15pts for the evo bot...
     
  15. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    Yeah, but they've increased the weight of the IA problems.
    • You can no longer use the LT+1 orders to offer support. they can only be of use for NCOs ¿how many NCOs are on your lists costing the skill 3points and the LT2 another 2?
    • EVO is a must and it feeds on regular orders and takes 1 spor towards 10 man lists
    • BS profiles were the cheap affordable piece to complement+fill fireteams... now a BS costs the same or more than a combi
    • They've reduced the quantity of Tac. Awarenes on zuyong linkteams (if yo're not wanting to pay for extra High CAP weapons)
    • Hacking one of the weakspots of the army is hugely reinforced
    • CC the other big weakspot of the army is hugely reinforced. Willing to pay for a Hulang FTO?
    • We keep being short on MSVs in fireteams to deal with camo/mimetism/smoke
    • We keep with little board control. One infiltrator of 40ish points and one mine will not hold a thing. espeially being hackable and without camo
    • We keep without cheap reliable options against TR bots. Every faction has a Infiltrator with mimetism+camo+combi, we have:
      - a cammo sniper (not too reliable),
      - a SMG infiltrator (BS at 9s or 6s on +0 rangeband or wasting a lot of orders) and
      - a Hactao (so expensive, that implies making the list around him)
    • Engineers inside fireteams are supposed to be the solution to the ammout of negative on our fireteams, but those same engineers are the priority targets of Hacking. One oblivion/EM and the engineer is no more of use
    Working around those problems imply paying taxes, including expensive units, breaking your head with all the pieces fitting in, and making lists weird and chunky.
     
    #15 Mc_Clane, Oct 2, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Zuyong have the same number of TacAware profiles as before, they just reduced the CAP/SWC cost on the Combi version (and added a bunch of profiles to Shang-Ji).
     
    Sedral and Hiereth like this.
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The EVO isn't a must. Fairy Dust doesn't stack with Tinbots.
     
  18. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    Yeah, but is a must because you have
    • mildfield HIs that need cover and doesn't have tinbot
    • AD troops
    • All the ofensive MSVs are on remotes
    • tinbots are now on ofensive/reactive pieces so you can loose them fast
    Are you willing to pay twice for tinbots? that makes the cost of extra orders from 3p up to 5p for an irregular order

    making Invincible lists is a headache
     
    #18 Mc_Clane, Oct 2, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  19. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    I don't Know if the LT+1 worths it any more.
    I don't want my LT to be hackable.
    I don't want my LT to be an ARO piece,
    and I don't know if I want to pay 22points (if they don't actually change it) in a glorified cheerleader for what 2 zhanshis, one of them LT can offer (BTW with less probable order losses if I loose my NCO)
     
    #19 Mc_Clane, Oct 2, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  20. darthchapswag

    darthchapswag Shandian Strike Team

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    I'd disagree.

    IA is in a great place now with well protected aggressive Haris and some very decent resilient units that can exploit order shenanigans.

    Struggling with a TR bot? Bang a B5 AP HMG or HRMC into it. Drop a HI behind it and put a boarding shotgun in at bad range bands.

    BTS6 and Tinbot (-6) make for some resilient units vs hacking. If you're worried about lone units being vulnerable then use a repeater and Tinbot linked KHD to clear out the hacking threats. Or the camo/stealth our lone units tend to have.

    Cheong is perhaps the single greatest addition to IA, bringing a non-hackable cheap (compared to alternatives) link filler engineer, with repeater for KHD coverage to our links.

    And I just spent an entire game cleaning up Shasvastii with boarding shotgun templates. Well worth the points change.

    As I said at the beginning, IA is in a good place. It finally feels like a flexible elite (in terms of order skills and equipment) HI force with enough good kit to cover its traditional weaknesses.

    Edit: clarify Cheong is cheap compared to other IA wildcards. Still expensive.
     
    #20 darthchapswag, Oct 2, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
    ambisinister and Chaserabinov like this.
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