Hey all, it's been a minute since I wrote about Ikari, but I have to say, I'm really excited about the fireteam changes for them. I'll miss the Tanko + Druze core, but their Wu Ming and Keisotsu core links are so much more flexible than before, it more than makes up for it. https://www.thediceabide.com/blog/2022/6/2/infinity-n4-ikari-company-fireteams
Sorry, I haven't looked at Ikari much since the update, but how are Wu Ming links more flexible? It's still just Wu Ming and Clipper, only now they don't get the full link bonus. I'm sure there's a simple answer, but i'm ignorant.
This. Also before if you wanted a specialist you were stuck with the 30 point forward observer, now you can take Wu Ming for the heavy weapon and tinbot, then flesh out the link with things like doctors (keep them running), hackers (abuse that tinbot), and diggers (keep it cheap).
You could still take one brawler in the old wu-ming teams which could be a specialist, I did so plenty of times mostly in a Haris, in a Core link I usually went with a msv2 sniper brawler. While the new teams are a bit more flexible the whole change feels rushed for Ikari. Just the simple fact that a while bunch of things counts as Druze but we only have Haris option for them feels like they had some interesting ideas but never finished implementing them.
Yeah I'm not impressed on the whole with changes to fireteams. A lot of sectoral that weren't in a great place are objectively worse or got sidegraded. Not convinced ikari ended up better, maybe just a bit different
We didn't have a daiyoki in a team before did we? That can be a great haris. I like how a kiesotsu team can have, 2 diggers, 2 brawlers, and 2 ABH. You can make good cheap defensive team with them.
That's all well and good but they still can't shoot for toffee and are vulnerable to all the things a normal link are vulnerable to like piece traders
The kiesotsu can't but the ABH and Brawlers are BS12, Tanko is 13. This not bad and on par with many cheap links. You still have many points left over for WM or Druze Haris and a more.
Yeah, but that's distinctly average and barely gains you anything that you cant get by running them solo and not making a big template eating blob of troops in one spot. Your Harris is also going to be stuck at a distinctly average BS which leaves you really hurting for options to deal with mimetic enemies
Well, of the two Core they have, I think it's pretty good. Wu Ming are great but expensive. Below the Tanko and Keisotsu could be replaced by a WM and Brawler but it gets more expensive no matter how you go. For me, I wouldn't use Brawlers or ABH on their own anyway. KEISOTSU (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 19) BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27) 3.5 SWC | 98 Points
Fully linked HI in a mixed team are only shooting at same BS as a HI in yu-jing in vanilla. I'm not seeing a reason to run a lot of sectoral now, the benefits that some sectoral forces had in links have been partially/full eroded leaving a husk of flavour or a trip back in time to n2 pure-links-only. Ikari has some pretty awful weaknesses baked-in with no CoC and awful lt options, a preponderance of cheap irregulars in a 15 order cap system etc and has now taken a nerf to its damage output or a vastly more restrictive list building approach applied. Think n4 is going to be the era of vanilla and the select few CB favourite factions that get a dedicated release (kosmo, MAF, corredigor)
On paper it looks flexible but look at the tag line at the bottom, 98 points and 3.5 swc spent for 2 shot aros at bs13 or 14 depending on who's shooting that time. In vanilla, you can have a tag that shoots four or five shots at 14s or 15s for cheaper cost and less swc. A squalo for example is five shots on 15s and brings 3 orders between NCO, tac aware and a regular order, costs 23 points less and 1.5 swc less. I get the flexibility is nice but the drop off in firepower is huge and I don't think defensive links are strong enough to stand up to alpha pieces. At this point there's only really order efficiency going for ikari, most na2 and plenty of older sectoral. most factions can build a flexible and hard hitting force out of a vanilla build without clumping loads of troops together to eat templates
Ikari has always had drawbacks and probably always will until they actually pay attention to it to make it better. That link is still cheap enough for having a TAG as well. You can almost think of the rest of the force as vanilla. I didn't have to take a Druze haris. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 2 3 KEISOTSU (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 19) BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27) TRIPHAMMER AP Spitfire, Heavy Flamethrower / AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 58) TRIPHAMMER PILOT Rifle / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0) NINJA (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 29) YOJIMBO Contender(+1B), Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, Crazykoala / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18) GROUP 2 5 2 1 DRUZE Shock Marksman Rifle, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27) DRUZE (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30) BRAWLER (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) PANGGULING (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Assault Pistol(+1B), Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 6) WARCOR (Sixth Sense) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) 5.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
Yeah I get what you're saying, I just don't know why I'm taking na2 now other than for flavour. It feels like we've got a distinctly two-tier system developing. I hope I'm wrong but I suspect that vanilla is going to have a good ITS season this year
That cheapo defensive link plus a Yuan Yuan plus Daiyokai link and still plus a TAG is why Ikari is still good. They can hit hard, even after taking a few casualties. Vanilla is strong right now, but NA2 still have plenty of oomph. JSA has always been hard-mode but remain deadly in the hands of skilled players. StarCo is better than ever IMO despite the Brigada mixed links losing BS. White Company and ForCo did suffer, true. Spiral… still Tohaa.
I think I haven't lost a game with StarCo (RiotGrrls Link, lots of Camo, Raoul + 2 Jaguars) in N4. But I am struggling with Ikari. After those Fireteam changes, everytime I try to do an Ikari List, I end up taking DBS or QK instead with an offensive Druze Haris, some Skirmishers and a defensive Ghulam or Brawler link. I don't know but Ikari for me feels like some kind of Druze Sectorial...
I agree. I was surprised they actually kept Druze at all. I like Druze but I don't think they are a good fit for Ikari. I hope they replace them someday. With what I don't know. I don't think anything exists that makes sense. I don't want more JSA troops. I know I'd liked to see a few more Tohaa outside of Spiral. I'd also like them to have something no other NA2 has.
Some Ariadna would be good too. They don't have much in NA2. Ikari already has Desperados too. Marauders, Briscards, Scott Guard would be good, but I think Wulvers would be perfect! Ikari would hire just about anyone. The more savage the better.