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N4 devildog heavy shotgun viability vs other dog warriors

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by dhellfox, May 8, 2020.

  1. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    if i understand it correctly the consensus is h-shotgun devildog is the worst of them in the meta.
    if the code 1 shotguns changes come to n4 how valid will that load out be compared to the other dog warriors?
     
  2. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    Still overpriced IMO
     
  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Hopefully its price will get readjusted in N4. Aside from that changes to crits will mean that Heavy Shotgun might be a viable source of AP.
     
  4. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    Might be viable, forces some decision making, and is not as reliant on BS as it used to be.
     
  5. Kreslack

    Kreslack Unknown Ranger lead the way!

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    A damage 15 direct template will be pretty scary on the devil dog. That'll certainly be an upgrade.

    My biggest complaint with the devil dogs is their loss of regular grenades. Its such a sharp downgrade. Its a brutal reactive FtF weapon on a Phys 16 unit, and indirect template threat.

    I do hope they'll get a little discount in N4. The increase they got with the total immunity changes really didnt do them any favors.(I'm also still rather salty that only the dog warriors got a TI weakness, and other TI units{Karakuri} that need one, didn't)
     
    #5 Kreslack, May 13, 2020
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  6. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    you people misjudge the value of the Sensor skill and an additional CC die.
     
  7. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    my antipode tends to get shot before it becomes remotely useful....
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    No, because we're talking about the HSG version, not the Chain Rifle version.

    I've had utility with the HSG Devil Dog in limited insertion tournaments, as he's mobile, durable, and can threaten a Heavy Infantry fireteam with his gun. If shotguns are changed to direct templates in N4, that seems less likely, since dodging it will become easier.
     
  9. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
    Warcor

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    Hard to say in N4, but the heavy shotgun has been consistently far more effective than the chain rifle in my experience. Being able to go face to face when inflicting damage keeps the Devil Dog around a lot longer. Not to mention being able to jump to peek over walls and dish out a couple template hits at range out of LOF. Even while in LOF at 0 range, against a combi, can be well worth it, especially if you tag multiple models in the process.
     
  10. Ghost87

    Ghost87 Well-Known Member

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    While the HSG sounds interesting, for my taste the unit is already too expensive for a semi-disposable Warband.
    Paying additional 9 pts to get a weapon which most of the time requires more orders to get into position is too situational in my book.
    I don't feel comfortable fighting against cover with that glorious BS10 (so 2x13 without enemy modifiers vs 1-2x BS14 even for a line guy)
     
  11. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
    Warcor

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    The HSG version definitely isn't a semi disposable Warband, that's the problem. You don't get cover while super jumping anyhow, so you have all incentive to find the best angles and jump shoot. If you treat the HSG dog as a throw away unit, you're going to be disappointed when it is thrown away, instead it's a rapid short range attack piece with a ton more survivability and damage dealing capacity than a single chain rifle and heavy pistol.
     
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  12. WiseKensai

    WiseKensai Rogue Interventor
    Warcor

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    Having been on the receiving end of the HSG Devil Dog several times, it's not a pleasant unit to face. In N3 USARF, I definitely am more afraid of it than the Chain Rifle profile, because it can face to face my dodge. I've lost plenty of high value models to it, only to have it fade away back to the midfield and force me to dig it out on my active turn. It's a real jerk.

    With the coming changes to shotguns removing the ability to face to face multiple units under the template but adding an auto-hit Direct Template, the HSG profile may on the surface become less appealing, but I think it's actually more appealing than the chain rifle profile. Again, we're looking at USARF alone. Context is everything. Yes, it costs more (and presumably still will in N4) but I'm now getting a BS16 shot -- just super jump to deny cover -- or a mini-chain rifle, so I can pick the best option for the situation based off of your ARO.

    It's not going to be as order efficient as rolling around the corner, dropping two shotgun templates on a link and rolling 12, 15 while trying to keep that smug grin off your face as your opponent flails around trying to roll a crit on their dodge for 5 models, but I suspect CB is trying to soften the punishment for newer players who deploy links in "template formation."

    In the context of Vanilla Ariadna, the evaluation changes significantly, as it does with all vanilla versus sectorial comparisions. I still think there's a place for it in vanilla, but there are so many excellent options that you can make all sorts of corner case arguments. I think the HSG Devil Dog will excel in the following cases:
    • The Mirror Match - If you're facing Ariadna camo spam, sensor and a shotgun are a great way to clear out annoying things in the midfield, and you don't have to worry about eating a Tankhunter autocannon as much thanks to Total Immunity.
    • Spot Removal - You can go hunt down anything in camo state pretty easily and kill it. TO lieutenant on a roof in Decapitation? Not safe.
    • Deployment Zone Harassment - Run in, snipe a few things, run out. Other Dog Warriors can of course do this as well.
    Really the key benefit of the HSG Devil dog is that it offers a high mobility platform (with smoke) to deliver the following:
    • Credible CC threat
    • Sensor
    • Direct Template Weapon
    • "High BS" face to face roll (grenades will work for this as well)
    None of the other Dog Warrior profiles, even those with access to grenades, offer all of the above. You can make the argument that your playstyle/meta/matchup/mission doesn't require one or multiple of the above, but if you want all of them, only the Devil Dog HSG has all of them. It's up to you whether the price is what you're willing to pay for all of those tools.
     
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  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Are we 100% sure that shotguns will work differently in N4? And, more importantly, what about Plasma?
     
  14. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Yes, N4 will have the C1 Shotgun rules.

    We don't know about plasma yet.
     
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Where'd CB say this?
     
  16. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    On their Instagram, and on Facebook stories that were answering community questions.
     
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Well, shit. Can't say I imagined Instagram being relevant like that XD
     
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